Bi-Polar, depression and PCOS

TinaH · 08-13-2003, 10:04 PM

Hi
I have been reading about everyone's depression on this site. I have been treated for depression for years and was the classic PCOS sufferer that no doctor would diagnose. Anyway, a year ago the world's sweetest doctor finally said you have PCOS my dear. Then three months after that I was diagnosised with Bi Polar disorder. I was having terrible mood swings, panic attacks , my antidepressants weren't working so I went to a psychiatrist. Who explained that was what happen to Bi-Polar patients who were only getting anti-depressents and no mood stabilizers. So I was promptly taken off Celexa (which I was told would have been OK to take and be pregnant or trying to get pregnant) Now I not only deal with the deppression but then we add Clomid 150mg and things really get interesting around my house.
My questions are:
1.Are there any other Bi-Polar Soulcysters out there?
2.Has anyone heard of a link between the two?

HELP!!!

TinaH

skeeweeaka · 08-14-2003, 04:46 AM

Unfortunately I am new to this site, however, I just read some of the articles they have here and it suggests there is a link.... I am manic depressive for 4 years now... Don't know if I have PCOS but have a lot of the symptoms....insulin resistant...fibroids...cysts...heavy periods...pelvic pain...

Was really just looking for information on the diet because I checked The INsulin Resistance Diet book out of the library today...researching other diets.... Anyway...found this site...a miracle I think...

I think I need to see an endocrinologist and have them do a workup on me... Will make an appointment tomorrow with my Gen doctor...to get a referral... I just had an ultrasound done...I'm sure either the cysts or fibroids have returned...

My Bipolar disorder is very bad...I am trying to find a cure naturally before I consider ECT....

Hope this helps you...

TinaH · 08-15-2003, 07:08 PM

Thanks Skeeweeaka for responding to my comments and questions. I have to admit I am not real web savy!!!! To saw the least. But I have run across a site (afterthediet.com/polycyst2) that gave some more information about the connection between the Bipolar and PCOS. They make it sound like the depression or manic depression may be the cause of the PCOS. I'm not sure if I am reading that right but that is how it sounds. My plan is to take this and anyother info. I can find to my endrocrinologist on the 25th of this month. If you know of a site that might give better info. please let me know! I've tried webMD because I thought they had a place where you could "ask the doctor", but, again I think my web skills are so bad that I'm the one doing it wrong.
Thank you again for your response. Good luck to you. The PCOS is bad enough but when you add this other..... I had one women (with two Kids and bipolar) tell me she would rather have the bipolar treated and forget having anymore kids because the bipolar was just too much to cope with! She also is allergic to all the mood stablizers and has had to take a different approach to her treatment. She has cut all sugar and all caffeine out of her diet. Her doctor is also treating her with anti-seizer meds.?
Again thank you and to all who are reading this good luck and God Bless!!!!!!

TinaH

skeeweeaka · 08-20-2003, 01:23 AM

Unfortunately I agree with her... It is difficult....and I am also being treated with antiseizure meds.... That I am trying to get off of because FDA has not approved them to treat bipolar...

Currently have a referral to see GYN...my other doc found a couple of fibroids and cysts on my ovaries... This is my TOM and I am in severe pain....bleeding too much....and just plain old tired...

HOpefully I will be able to get in soon to see if my suspicions are correct about PCOS...

sassparillo · 08-20-2003, 06:27 PM

That is weird that you mention the actual link between bi-polar/depression and PCOS. I was recently diagnosed with depression, possilby bi-polar, and when I mentioned that I thought maybe it was just hormonal because of the PCOS, the doc said something about them going hand in hand. I asked what that meant and he said there is a link, but they are not sure what comes first. I took that to mean that it could start off as a chemical imbalance in the brain that leads to an imbalance elsewhere? What do you think?

skeeweeaka · 08-30-2003, 11:58 PM

Well based on my research...I think that the symptoms of PCOS lead to depression... I think that it is because of the hormonal imbalance that takes place with PCOS..which then leads to depression.

For example.... http://forums.obgyn.net/pcos/PCOS.0101/0560.html

Also...here is another study site... http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...ne11/pcos.html

They discuss their experiences with it. I have an appointment on September 11th with an endocrinologist to discuss 1. PCOS 2. Yeast discorders 3. Doing a trial on MET to see if my symptoms improve.

I'll post then...hopefully this will be the answer to all my problems...

Also...I just read another thread somewhere that suggested that cutting back too far on your level of carbs can also cause depression...

rayracers · 08-31-2003, 01:53 AM

I am also Bi-polar. I have read in many places that some anti-seizure meds can bring on some PCOS symptoms. I don't know thevalue of this information, but I find it very interesting. I was diagnosed at 12 right after the tragic death of my father. I was on Lithium for years, Depakote, and then the Control release form of Lithium, Eskalith CR and oh yes, also Tegretol. I stopped taking those when I got pregnant with my son at 18, but have never again taken them. I am just being treated with Effexor Xr now and have not had too many manic or depressive episodes since. The only think about this med is if you don't take it at smae time everyday, you get a headache, but small price to pay. I just carry it with me everywhere i go.

taah · 08-31-2003, 02:40 AM

I have PCOS and Bi-polar. There have been studies that suggest that some PCOS symptoms were brought on by anti seizure meds in some women. However, not all of us. I was dx with PCOS before I ever took any meds for BP or was even dx with BP for that matter.

I have done some research and there seems to be a link with PCOS and bi polar disorder. At the time they were conducting research on this topic. I will see if I can find the reports again. I am not sure if I still have them saved on my computer or not. This was a research on women with PCOS and Bi-polar that had PCOS without taking any meds for bi-polar disorder.

lcedgar · 08-31-2003, 04:41 AM

I, too, have been diagnosed with PCOS and Bipolar. Depakote can and often does cause PCOS, but I think that's a separate issue because I've also read that PCOS and Bipolar are linked aside from meds. I'm taking no medications because they have NEVER helped me, and they often make things worse. I'm tired of spending my life playing guinea pig with medications as well. But mostly I'm terrified of getting ahold of a bad one again. They cause me so much panick and anxiety and make my depression much worse. Why can't there be a simple answer for us? Every year the periods, pelvic pain, depression, ACNE, hair growth, fatigue, weight, etc. get worse, and I feel like I just can't win this fight. I've tried everything I can think of, but I'm certainly running out of strength and will.

On that note, this might be the depression talking. It's right before my period (late again), and I am feeling very suicidal. I go through this every month. I really want to know: DOES ANYONE ELSE GET SEVERELY SUICIDAL RIGHT BEFORE THEIR PERIODS? I'm also very touchy, and I drive everyone around me nuts. I also feel like everyone else is the cause of my misery, but I have to remind myself what time of month it is and that I go through this every time.

Lisa

skeeweeaka · 09-01-2003, 05:03 AM

Lisa...yes I do get suicidal right around my periods... Also...my depression is worsened during cloudy days... It is extreme...and I too am tired of the symptoms... I am hopeful that either my OBGYN appointment on Tuesday or my Endocrinologist appointment on the 11th will help me resolve some of these symptoms...

It is truly an uphill battle...

Lendi · 09-01-2003, 02:19 PM

I think this is a case of which came first the chicken or the egg. There are many cysters who are not bi-polar but also many bi-polar people without PCOS. And, many who do have both. So, I would guess they do go hand in hand, but are not the result of each other. I'd guess there is a much bigger picture that hasn't been found that contributes to both. Anytime there is a hormonal imbalance many diseases can happen at the same time. JMHO

skeeweeaka · 09-02-2003, 05:56 PM

Well I went to my OBGYN appointment today with notes in hand... After running down all my symptoms and explaining my past history, I asked about PCOS..... His reply was, "What is PCOS." After I said I told you so's to myself, I explained what the initials stood for... He stated oh PCO... Then he decided that it wasn't related to my other symptoms. He feels that they are not connected... Then he proceeded to ask me what was more important, PCOS or my heavy bleeding, cysts, and fibroids... I said they were equally disturbing and that I felt they were one in the same...and explained that I was thinking they were related to my manic depression. He, however, disagreed...

Finally, after having my examination we discussed it further. He agreed to further testing to rule out PCOS...only testosterone test though. I don't know how accurate that test alone can predict PCOS...but we'll see. Also he suggested a less invasive test for removal of fibroids... Uterine Artery Embolization Procedure... A radiologist performs it and basically a leg vein is used and a tube is inserted into the abdomen and oxygen supply is cut off to the fibroidss which causes them to die... Fairly new procedure...1995...but seems to be rather successful... Overnight stay for observation required only. Here's a link http://www.mirs.org/fibroids.htm

Anyway else have this procedure done??? If so what was your experience....

TinaH · 09-04-2003, 04:18 AM

Hi Sisters,
This is Tina I started these questions and have recently talked in depth to my OB/GYN, Endrocrinologist and Psychiatrist. We have, as one respondant put it, what comes first the Chicken or the egg. The Pschyistrist still wants to believe they are two different things. But I have taken about 50 pages to her I have gathered from many sites showing the reason for concern. And as a good doctor should, she is now hot on the trail to find more information. The other two doctors say it seems very likely because we are dealing with hormones here. Chemical reactions in the brain. They both have said that the bottom line is PCOS still has a lot of questions unanswered by any scientific community. Maybe they just dont know where to start. Both said something interesting though. I am 32 and have dealt with the symptoms for 22 years. I had horrible PMS even at age 10 before my period but what I have a lot of that seemed to add to my nerves then and now was vommitting before I would start.(When I started ever 3 months or so) But in the last two years my insulin has been doing some funky stuff. It stays high until the week I should start and then drops and causes vomitting. Now I have been DX with adult onset diabetes which is a systom of PCOS. I have the X Factor. My doctors with in a week of each other said they had both seen articles linking the Bi-polar symptoms with the rise and falls of glucose levels!! I am not on any meds for the Bipolar and since I have had to stop taking the Clomid my moods have really mellowed out. I do take Klonopin for sudden nervous problems, mainly panic disorders.

Skeeweeaka, I am glad that you got to your doctor. But let me tell you I was just dx this year because they wanted to find my PCOS in blood work. Most Doctors seem to disagree on that even. Mine was always in "normal Limits" but I fit every other characteristic of the disorder. Finally, I had laparosopic surgery done and the find what they call the "chain of pearl" around my ovaries which is simply the damage left by years of the disease. Then I went to the Endrocrinologist who said he would rather dx through the clinical symptoms (facial hair, no periods etc) I found a web site that said the only way you can dx is by blood work but, have been told by others doctors and reading other literature that you could draw blood from a PCOS sufferer everyday for a month and never get the same results twice. They also need to compare it to your estrogen levels, TSH, LH and FSH levels. I thought the best time to do that would be around the 13th or 14th day. The specialist said they always did it around day 3 of your cycle. Anyway I am not trying to be bossy but you have been so good in your responses to this site I thought I'd pass that on to you or anyone else. If it doesn' t quite jive with what you have been told I wouldn't worry. What I found is it doesn't seem like the best of the best would agree on every part of this disorder.
Also I found a web site called afterthediet.com. It has a check list on it for people that suspect they have PCOS it can be printed off to take to your doctor.

God Bless and
Good Luck all!!!
TinaH.

lilithann · 09-04-2003, 02:26 PM

That is so interesting. I have been diagnosed with PCOS for two years. I have been going to a therapist for depression when she told me that I could be bipolar. Holy Cow! I will definetly bring this to her attention. If anyone as anymore info, please let me know.

Thanks,
Lilith Ann

PS: I am currently on 500mg for glucophage. Is it best to go up to 1500-2000mg if trying to concieve?

TinaH · 09-05-2003, 01:19 AM

Dear Lilth Ann,

I don't know if 500 or 2000 mg of the Metphromin(glucaphage) is better. My husband is a nurse and says that it all is kind of a case by case basis. Until I was almost 31 my blood sugar was at the high end of normal but never did too bad. My regular Doctor thought it was high enough to warrant 500mg to possibly assist in my weight loss. However, it has had to be changed 3 times in a year and a half. The way the endrocrinologist and husband explained it the Avandia 3mg and Metphromin 1500mg I am on now are helping me use my insulin in my body better and making sure the ovaries are not being confused. Hopefully let them do what they were designed to do. The increase to 1500mg was my specialist's perference. Ask your doctor he may have another way of looking at this very confusing and sometimes misinterperted condition.
I read a lot of these stories and quite a few of the women seem to be in their 20's. I am 32, my condition has worsened very quickly over the last couple of years and that may make a difference in their deciding to go with a higher dose. I do not know. I told someone else just don't be afraid to ask and if you don't like the answer listen to your gut. If it isn't happy either ask someone else!!!

Good Luck
TinaH.