Links | Links 2 | Links 3 | Links 4 |

Go Back   PCOS Message Board > PCOS Treatments and Conditions > Misc. Medications

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-13-2009, 03:22 AM   #76 (permalink)
Registered User
 
AnnaSipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
My Mood:
AnnaSipes is on a distinguished road
Points: 463.80
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 463.80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boysmom View Post
Well- that was WAY easier then I thought. So to anyone who is wierded out by needles- let me just say that shooting yourself with the Byetta is not a big deal at all. I started yesterday- I have 4 down. I do feel a "feeling" that I don't need to eat much already. I have a couple of moments of nausea, but nothing major. Now lets hope that this, with exersize will help me FINALLY loose some weight.
Sorry I havent been on in a few days but Good luck with Byetta. I am glad it wasn't so bad for you. I am a big wuss when it comes to needles. I got so anxious before my first shot that I was crying the whole time I injected myself.LOL. It wasnt bad at all.

La Big Gurl- I haven't had any problems with my skin. I did get the indigestion, but it doesn't do it anymore. Unless I forget to take it on time everyday.

On a Good note I have lost 5 more lbs. I was suppose to see my new doctor last tuesday but I came down hard with the flu. So I went to my regular dr. Im not sure if the 5lbs is because of the byetta or not eating to good. I was so sick. But now I am all better..
__________________
Me-25 DH-23 married 09/01/08
DSD-2
Furbabies(Canine)- Scooby and Honey
Furbabies(Feline)- Angel, Baby, Lil Girl(had 6 babys)
Starting TTC in May09
Partial Dx in 1999
ReDX'd in 2009
1 M/C in 2005
AnnaSipes is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 04-13-2009, 09:04 AM   #77 (permalink)
Baby for 2009!!!
 
wndytime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 59
My Mood:
wndytime is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,179.32
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,179.32
Default

My skin is dry (Iused to have normal to oily skin) since i went on the 10mcg...i think i need to up my water intake. Let me know if you find something that works for you.
__________________
Me (30)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hubby (34)
Married 03-26-2000

Trying to conceive #1!!
Our first time TTC

April 2009---Confirmed O---BFN
May 2009--Confirmed O--BFN
June 2009--Confirmed O--No Go
July 2009--No O --

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Rx:
Acto plus Met 15mg/850mg---3x/day
Byetta 5 mcg---2x/day (when I'm good)
Vitamin D 4,000 UI--1x/day
Prenatals--1x/day (on hold for now)
Using Clear Blue Fertility Monitor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

wndytime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 01:52 PM   #78 (permalink)
Registered User
 
a_beautiful_disaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 215
My Mood:
a_beautiful_disaster is on a distinguished road
Points: 8,641.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 8,641.59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boysmom View Post
Well- that was WAY easier then I thought. So to anyone who is wierded out by needles- let me just say that shooting yourself with the Byetta is not a big deal at all. I started yesterday- I have 4 down. I do feel a "feeling" that I don't need to eat much already. I have a couple of moments of nausea, but nothing major. Now lets hope that this, with exersize will help me FINALLY loose some weight.

Best of luck with Byetta. Here's a pic for some inspiration.




The picture of me *blonde* was in the Spring of 2005 (before I began the Byetta, which was in November of 2005)

The second picture was taken of me on Valentine's Day 2009, 10 days after giving birth. I was 100lbs lighter than in the first picture, and this was ONLY from using the 5mcg Byetta injection with 1000mgs of Metformin XR for almost 4 years. I know it's a long road, but it's worth it. Trust me! Best of luck!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 4th, 2009
6:12pm, 7lbs 21 inches


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a_beautiful_disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 08:26 PM   #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
LaBigGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 373
My Mood:
LaBigGirl is on a distinguished road
Points: 25,995.28
Bank: 20,497.01
Total Points: 46,492.29
Default

Hi Beautiful_d, good job with the weight loss! I'm still trying to get back on Met, when I went up to 10mcg. Byetta the Met got intolerable again. I was alright with Met and 5mcg. Byetta so maybe I can talk to my dr. about dosing back a little.
__________________
I am: age 37; single, no children
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PCOS w/insulin resistance, obesity, & hypothyroidism
Byetta, Spironolactone, Levoxyl, & Cytomel...Multi-Vit., B-complex, Vit. D, Flax Oil, & Cholest-Off

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hello, PCOS? Take a flying leap!
LaBigGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 02:31 AM   #80 (permalink)
Registered User
 
a_beautiful_disaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 215
My Mood:
a_beautiful_disaster is on a distinguished road
Points: 8,641.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 8,641.59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBigGirl View Post
Hi Beautiful_d, good job with the weight loss! I'm still trying to get back on Met, when I went up to 10mcg. Byetta the Met got intolerable again. I was alright with Met and 5mcg. Byetta so maybe I can talk to my dr. about dosing back a little.

I know how hard it is-- boy was I sick for months when I first began the Byetta with the Metformin, but, eventually, my body adjusted to it, and now, unless I really eat something my body doesn't like, I do ok. I'm also on 40mgs of Nexium (I've been on that since I began Metformin back in 2003- just because the Metformin would tear my stomach up, and make me throw up bile).
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 4th, 2009
6:12pm, 7lbs 21 inches


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a_beautiful_disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 01:34 PM   #81 (permalink)
Registered User
 
champagnecholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18
champagnecholly is on a distinguished road
Points: 899.53
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 899.53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_beautiful_disaster View Post
The picture of me *blonde* was in the Spring of 2005 (before I began the Byetta, which was in November of 2005)

The second picture was taken of me on Valentine's Day 2009, 10 days after giving birth. I was 100lbs lighter than in the first picture, and this was ONLY from using the 5mcg Byetta injection with 1000mgs of Metformin XR for almost 4 years. I know it's a long road, but it's worth it. Trust me! Best of luck!
WOW that is so inspiring! I've been on the intro dose for five days now. I haven't felt any sickness which I was really expecting to feel. Maybe it is because I have always been on a low cal diet (1400/day avg). The doctors did say my nausea would be worse if I ate more... I kick it up to the full dose in a week or so, maybe then I'll really start to feel it. I've been on Met for about six months now, 1500 mg per day.

I too was squeamish about injections! What a bad disorder to have severely if you hate needles! They gave me a blood glucose monitor too - more needles!! I've noticed that with the byetta, my blood glucose 2 hrs after meals is a little more normal - exciting!!

I def noticed that I am a lot thirstier. I attribute that to maybe, hopefully, finally having a metabolism again! I've been drinking at least two 1 liter bottles of water a day... with byetta. I'm ALWAYS thirsty.

We'll see, I exercise daily and eat pretty well so I'm hoping this will help me get to more of a normal weight. With the PCOS weight I've noticed my joints are already getting tired in my mid-20's! I'm so glad I caught it earlier in life
champagnecholly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 02:27 PM   #82 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jessietex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 776
My Mood:
jessietex is on a distinguished road
Points: 11,786.78
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 11,786.78
Default

a_beautiful_disaster-

WAY TO GO!!! CONGRATS on the baby & the weight loss!! Do you mind if I ask how you conceived, were you on any medications like Clomid or injections, or was it natural? ITU if you don't want to share...
__________________
TTC #1
4/08 Met 1500 XR
11/08 Clomid 50mg cd 5-9, 1 follie, trigger, BFN
12/08 Clomid 50mg cd 5-9, no bueno follies- bust
1/09 Clomid 100mg cd 5-9, 1 follie, trigger, BFN
1/29/09- SA- Muy Bueno
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

3/10/09- HSG- All Clear!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

4/20/09 Clomid 100mg CD 5-9, 1 follie, trig, BFN
5/20/09 Femara 5 mg cd 3-7, 1 GREAT follie
6/17/09 BFP!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

6/17 Beta 401
6/19 Beta 993
10/5 It's A BOY!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jessietex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 03:49 PM   #83 (permalink)
Registered User
 
a_beautiful_disaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 215
My Mood:
a_beautiful_disaster is on a distinguished road
Points: 8,641.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 8,641.59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessietex View Post
a_beautiful_disaster-

WAY TO GO!!! CONGRATS on the baby & the weight loss!! Do you mind if I ask how you conceived, were you on any medications like Clomid or injections, or was it natural? ITU if you don't want to share...
Not at all! I conceived without any type of treatment or medication at all. What I did, was simply keep track of my cycles for a year. During that year, I did a LOT of research about Byetta, Metformin, and pregnancy. I decided that when we began the TTC process, that I would continue with both of those medications while TTC. Because my cycles were regular, I used this website to determine the best days to TTC. The second month, I became pregnant! Now, this is getting graphic, but for those who are TTC it's helpful.

During baby making sex, it's best for the woman to be on the bottom, and to not orgasm. What I did, was immediately after sex, I simply took a towel, and placed it between my legs, to prevent leakage. I would lay on my back as long as I could, and definitely didn't get up to go to the bathroom. I slept that way through out the night. It is a little uncomfortable, but well worth it! Best of luck!! *Hugs*

Also, I continued using the Byetta and Metformin XR throughout my entire pregnancy. Yes, my doctor advised me against it, but like I said, I did a year worth of research, and found for me, the benefits definitely outweighed the risk. I thankful I continued. (other than being born with group b strep) my baby girl was born healthy (no complications or defects from the medications) and is growing and thriving. As for me, I lost weight during the pregnancy, didn't develop gestational diabetes, preeclampsia or have any PCOS symptoms during pregnancy. It was definitely a great choice for me and my baby.

PS: champagnecholly thank you for your compliments! Best of luck with the continued use of Byetta!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 4th, 2009
6:12pm, 7lbs 21 inches


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a_beautiful_disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 11:35 PM   #84 (permalink)
Registered User
 
AnnaSipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
My Mood:
AnnaSipes is on a distinguished road
Points: 463.80
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 463.80
Default

I am going to have to keep in mind that about the towel. I never thought about that.

And I congratulate you on the baby and the weight loss. I am still trying to get AF on the byetta and met. My dr told me just to relax and if it doesnt happen there are other options. So I am trying to be optimistic.
__________________
Me-25 DH-23 married 09/01/08
DSD-2
Furbabies(Canine)- Scooby and Honey
Furbabies(Feline)- Angel, Baby, Lil Girl(had 6 babys)
Starting TTC in May09
Partial Dx in 1999
ReDX'd in 2009
1 M/C in 2005
AnnaSipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 02:40 AM   #85 (permalink)
Registered User
 
a_beautiful_disaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 215
My Mood:
a_beautiful_disaster is on a distinguished road
Points: 8,641.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 8,641.59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaSipes View Post
I am going to have to keep in mind that about the towel. I never thought about that.

And I congratulate you on the baby and the weight loss. I am still trying to get AF on the byetta and met. My dr told me just to relax and if it doesnt happen there are other options. So I am trying to be optimistic.

Definitely give it some time-- It took awhile for my periods to become regular, but they did. Best of luck!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 4th, 2009
6:12pm, 7lbs 21 inches


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a_beautiful_disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 02:38 PM   #86 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jessietex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 776
My Mood:
jessietex is on a distinguished road
Points: 11,786.78
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 11,786.78
Default

a_beautiful_disaster- Thanks for the info, I'm not very regular unless I take Clomid! After 3 rounds & then an HSG I want to try on our own for a while. Since the last Clomid round in Jan try I've had 2 cycles on my own, but they're 41 days apart. This is good & bad...I'm happy they are getting more "regular" but I don't know for sure if I O, even with OPK's & EWCM, etc...grrr....So far I've lost around 15 lbs on Byetta, hopefully I'll get more regular as I drop more. I have about 20 more to go. Thanks again for sharing & inspiring me!!!!
__________________
TTC #1
4/08 Met 1500 XR
11/08 Clomid 50mg cd 5-9, 1 follie, trigger, BFN
12/08 Clomid 50mg cd 5-9, no bueno follies- bust
1/09 Clomid 100mg cd 5-9, 1 follie, trigger, BFN
1/29/09- SA- Muy Bueno
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

3/10/09- HSG- All Clear!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

4/20/09 Clomid 100mg CD 5-9, 1 follie, trig, BFN
5/20/09 Femara 5 mg cd 3-7, 1 GREAT follie
6/17/09 BFP!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

6/17 Beta 401
6/19 Beta 993
10/5 It's A BOY!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jessietex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 01:36 AM   #87 (permalink)
Happy Mommy
 
beachlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tennessee-United States
Posts: 851
My Mood:
beachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nice
Points: 53,736.78
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 53,736.78
Default

Hi!
I am glad I found this thread. I didn't read through the whole thing since some of the posts are old, but just have a few questions. Did any of you have any GI side effects from the Byetta? I have tried over several years to take metformin, in both generic and namebrand form, in extended release and non-extended release. Anyway, DH and I are looking to start TTC #2, and I would like to lose some weight. I have tried Actos-the first time I took it, I conceived DS #1 within a month. After having him, I tried taking Actos again, but I think it was making my blood sugar go low. Anyway, I had to go have preconception testing done, and the perinatologist asked me if I had taken Byetta, and I told him no, and told him about the GI side effects I had with met, and then he told me that one of their drug reps got stuck in traffic (she was on Byetta) and let's just say she had a major "oops" since she couldn't get to the bathroom. This is how I was on metformin. Anyway, I am IR, not diabetic, and when I brought up Byetta to my endocrinologist, he immediately dismissed me and wouldn't talk further about it. I would like to know if that makes any sense. If it could help control my IR and help me lose weight (and I need to lose a lot), it would be great.

I would love to hear what those of you have taken it think about that-does it make sense to you? Did you take met before without s/e and then also do okay on Byetta? Or, even if you haven't taken met, have you had any GI s/e with Byetta?

Thanks in advance!!
__________________
Missy & DH and our miracle 29 weeker, Cole
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Our October 07 baby who came in August 07 instead! We are so blessed.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by beachlover; 04-20-2009 at 12:43 AM. Reason: correction on DS!
beachlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 03:35 AM   #88 (permalink)
Registered User
 
a_beautiful_disaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 215
My Mood:
a_beautiful_disaster is on a distinguished road
Points: 8,641.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 8,641.59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachlover View Post
Hi!
I am glad I found this thread. I didn't read through the whole thing since some of the posts are old, but just have a few questions. Did any of you have any GI side effects from the Byetta? I have tried over several years to take metformin, in both generic and namebrand form, in extended release and non-extended release. Anyway, DH and I are looking to start TTC #2, and I would like to lose some weight. I have tried Actos-the first time I took it, I conceived DS #2 within a month. After having him, I tried taking it, but I think it was making my blood sugar go low. Anyway, I had to go have preconception testing done, and the perinatologist asked me if I had taken Byetta, and I told him no, and told him about the GI side effects I had with met, and then he told me that one of their drug reps got stuck in traffic (she was on Byetta) and let's just say she had a major "oops" since she couldn't get to the bathroom. This is how I was on metformin. Anyway, I am IR, not diabetic, and when I brought up Byetta to my endocrinologist, he immediately dismissed me and wouldn't talk further about it. I would like to know if that makes any sense. If it could help control my IR and help me lose weight (and I need to lose a lot), it would be great.

I would love to hear what those of you have taken it think about that-does it make sense to you? Did you take met before without s/e and then also do okay on Byetta? Or, even if you haven't taken met, have you had any GI s/e with Byetta?

Thanks in advance!!
If you are IR, it will DEFINITELY help with that-- The Byetta coupled with Metformin XR was what finally helped me to regulate my insulin levels. I did have side effects with both. If I don't take Nexium with the Metformin, it makes me violently sick (with nausea and vomiting), but with it, I do great. As for the Byetta, I was very nauseated for a few months after eating, but it did get better. As far as having "accidents", that's something that's always a possibility when using Metformin, but it DOES get better with time. After being on Metformin for almost 7 years, I know what I can and can't eat, and what will make me have to run to the bathroom if I eat it. For the most part, I really don't have any problems now.

Definitely talk to your doctor about giving it a try. It's made all the difference in the world for me.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 4th, 2009
6:12pm, 7lbs 21 inches


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a_beautiful_disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 06:28 AM   #89 (permalink)
Registered User
 
brooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6
My Mood:
brooks is on a distinguished road
Points: 750.05
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 750.05
Default

Hi...Ive been on byetta for 3 weeks now. I was so afraid of needles but found that I didnt feel the poke at all except for the past 2 days. I dont know why that is but my last 4 shots hurt going in and also when the meds were dispensed. Now Im afraid again. Where do you all inject yourself? Im trying to find places that doesnt hurt. I currently inject in my stomach either anywhere below my bellybutton or directly on the side of it. I did do a post on this with no replies. also, i have not lost any weight or felt nauseated at all. Im currently doing 5 units twice a day.
aloha,
brooks
brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:54 AM   #90 (permalink)
Happy Mommy
 
beachlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tennessee-United States
Posts: 851
My Mood:
beachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nicebeachlover is just really nice
Points: 53,736.78
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 53,736.78
Default

ABeautifulDisaster-Did you bring up Byetta to your doctor, or did he/she suggest it? Also, do you suggest any particular websites for looking up IR and Byetta and pregnancy? Unfortunately, Metformin for me is completely intolerable. I could eat a salad or anything with lettuce, and it would kill me. Essentially, any time I ate anything, even if it was healthy, it ended it disaster. Of course it was way worse if it was something bad, but the simple act of eating would send me to the bathroom. It was very, very rough on my system. I took met in some form off and on for several years and got tired of worrying about finding a bathroom or freaking out about going on a road trip. Plus, I was never able to get pregnant while taking it-that only happened for me with the Actos. BTW-did you lose all of your weight prior to having your daughter? I had to stop the Actos once I got pregnant. I did end up with severe preeclampsia with my DS at 29 weeks. I just want to find something that will work with my IR and hopefully help get my hormones in order.

So, is it typical to take metformin with Byetta, or can you take Byetta alone? Will the doctor prescribe it if you have IR only and are not diabetic? I was actually a little shocked that the peri mentioned it to me, but my endo essentially wouldn't even discuss it.

Sorry for the million questions, but I am so excited that I found this thread!!
__________________
Missy & DH and our miracle 29 weeker, Cole
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Our October 07 baby who came in August 07 instead! We are so blessed.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
beachlover is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Points Per Thread View: 1.00
Points Per Thread: 15.00
Points Per Post: 5.00

» Watch PCOS Videos

Update PCOS-Pregnacy...
Quick video to say hello and talk anout infertility...

{widget place holder} {widget place holder}
 
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -3. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0
copyright 2002-2004