Cinnamon & Apple Cider Successes??

Snow · 09-02-2008, 08:15 AM

Just wondering if any thin cysters have had any success with these for starting/regulating AF or any other symptoms like acne. I'm not sure if I'm IR or not, but have acne probs and not AF for 9 months since stopping nuvaring, which I'm desperate to start again.

tiana_karissa · 09-02-2008, 04:20 PM

I haven't heard anything about apple cider. However cinnamon has been getting a lot of attention in helping to control blood sugar levels. And considering it has relatively few if any side-effect/complications it's definitely worth a try. Plus with all of the info now on nonIR PCOS patients still having success from using met there is a chance this would help in the same way. I try to use cinnamon whenever I remember but it's difficult to get enough unless you get the capsules. If you end up taking met or any other meds that affect your blood sugar levels make sure you dr is aware that you are taking the cinnamon.

Also just a side note, I noticed your taking Vitex and I have read some conflicting info on women with PCOS taking it. I took it myself for quite a while a few years back and have been extensively researching natural alternative for many years to help with the PCOS and I am now hesitant about the use of it with PCOS. Obviously I'm not a naturopath or dr but I would read into it some more especially if your LH FSH ratios are off. I've also read it can also be helpful to only take it for the first 15 days of your cycle and then wait until day 1 to start it again.

melee18 · 09-02-2008, 08:22 PM

I've had some success with apple cider vinegar for acne. I either apply it as a toner before bed, or drink a tablespoon with a glass of water. Both ways seem to make my skin tone much softer and smoother after about three weeks of regular use. My pimples seem to dry up more quickly too.

The real thing that has made a big dent in the acne is taking 320mg of saw palmetto a day. I've come to the school of thought that it doesn't really matter what I put on my face at this point - if my body can't get rid of all the extra androgens, they're going to show up on my face.

When I was a teenager, benzoyl peroxide creams did the trick. But when I went off the Pill mid way through college, bp creams seemed to stop working and I was breaking out in different areas that the teenage years. Been trying all sorts of things for the past year now including going cold turkey on all products just to get a sense of what seemed to be helping and what irritates it. I've been using Carley's products, which are some of the best I've used. But the acne is still there to some extent.

Saw palmetto really helped clear up my chin so far. I've only been taking it for a few weeks now. But I'm convinced this has to be treated from the inside, not just with topicals.

melee18 · 09-02-2008, 08:23 PM

also with the apple cider vinegar - make sure it's a natural brand with "the mother" in it. Bragg's is the brand I've been using.

Snow · 09-03-2008, 12:43 PM

Thanks for the info ladies

Melee - didn't know applying the vinegar as a toner might help with acne...I will try it, will be interesting to see if it works...fingers crossed. I've been applying a dab of NPC to the spots and that seemed to help for a while, but it looks bad again today

Also been thinking of trying saw palmetto...will probably apply that to my new list of herbs order.

Tiana - yeah I suppose cinnamon won't harm and might work if Met is given to non-IR pcosers too. Interesting what you said about Vitex. What other info have you found about it not being good for women with PCOS. I ask because I've been thinking about stopping it in case it might be causing my missing AF as I have read about it having a negative effect on some women. I also take quite a lot so was again wondering whether I should half the dosage and see what happens. I have been taking it now for five months with no obvious effect at starting AF.

tiana_karissa · 09-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Snow - The thing with Vitex is that it works by gently suppressing FSH and promoting LH which would in turn possibly promote more progesterone and lower estrogen levels, or so the current thinking goes. Do you know what your average FSH to LH ratios are? I had no idea when I took it and it turned out mine where 1:4 when they should be about 1:1. So I was just exacerbating my problem by increasing my LH levels. Not everyone with PCOS has ratios that are out of whack, although a lot do, so if your levels are more normal it may be ok.

I suggest getting all of your hormone levels tested first before using all these herbs so you get the right effect. If your not trying to get pregnant though your dr may not be as interesting in doing it. Secondly, you need to get your period to be able to do the day 3 and day 23 (anywhere from day 21-23 usually works) blood work.

Saw palmetto works well if your acne is caused by elevated testosterone levels. For myself, although I have had some unwanted hair growth and acne, my testosterone levels are in the normal range. What work best for me was simply cutting out sugar and refined foods which is always a constant battle for me. Also drinking lots of water in general helps clear the skin as well. You can always tell when I've been on a sugar binge because my face breaks out like crazy. I've tested it out and it never fails. I had crazy acne when I was younger and took antibiotic for months on end, slathered my face with benzoyl peroxide(which worked the best out of anything topically), used all sorts of face washes and masks and nothing cleared it up for good until I was forced to do a candida cleanse diet for several months which is similar to a lot of the PCOS diets out there now. Also working out helps to get rid of those excess hormones and if necessary milk thistle is great to do a liver cleanse (it quite safe to take) which is where all those excess hormone build up trying to get out of your body. Sorry I could talk on about this for hours(I used to want to be a naturopath so I've read a lot).

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm always hesitant just to try taking new herbs because you have to remember they can be just a strong as pharmaceuticals and you could be throwing your system more out of whack if you don't know what hormones are out of whack in the first place.

Snow · 09-04-2008, 02:43 PM

Tiana - Thanks so much for your response. Unfortunately I don't know what my FSH:LH ratio is. I've had a complete nightmare finding any doctor or gyn/ob who will take me seriously (I live in France so I'm finding the language difficult when dealing with medical issue too). I have had so many "oh you don't look like you have PCOS" comments that I've kind of given up for the moment. I recently went to a gyn/ob who when I told him I haven't had a period since Nov 07 he said "so what do you want me to do about it, it's not a problem, come back when you're TTC, and you'll have to have medication to get pregnant". He then told me my ovaries didn't feel swollen and didn't bother with any blood (which I wanted because that's how I was originally DX as I didn't have the cysts). He didn't offer any solution to the MIA periods or to find out what the problem was. But he said from his examination (proding my ovaries) I don't have PCOS!

When I was DX in 1995 after my period disapeared for 9 months I had a ultrasound which didn't show any cysts (think there was one). And the actual DX was based on bloodwork, but I don't know exactly which hormones were out of sync which is unfortuate, so it could either be the FSH:LH ratio or testosterone. The DR back then just put me on BCP as a treatment.

I never had problems with acne or other symptoms of PCOS apart from missing periods when stopping BCP (though it did come back regularly once for a few months so I know it's possible). My skin started to have a few probs when I was using the nuvaring and then it's crazy bad now that I've stopped everything. (I'm 31 never had acne as a teenager).

I've been trying NPC to start my period (epecially as no DR or Gyn will give me provera), which I'm hoping will work this time round (have tried it a couple of times before, with no real success apart from a bit of spotting the second time round which then stopped). I'm starting to think maybe the vitex stopped that from working as I've never had any problems with artificial hormones like BCP in regulating my periods before.

It's true what you say about herbs being just as strong as pharmaceutical drugs and how really we shouldn't play with them without knowing everything about them and whether we're using them for the right problems. I'd read so much about vitex being good for missing periods for people without PCOS and also helping with PCOS that I thought it couldn't hurt.

For the past couple of days I've halved my dossage, to see what happens. Also don't want to suddenly stop if I do decide to stop in case it causes any bad reactions

tiana_karissa · 09-04-2008, 07:00 PM

Snow- That must be really stressful for you. I love how they tell you not to worry about it until you are TTC. My gyn always like to induce your AF if it has been more than 3 mths. He said letting it go 6 mths+ increases your chance of developing abnormal cells. He tends to side on the overly cautious side so I'm not sure if it really is that serious. I generally got my AF on my own albeit every 2-3 mths however there was a period in time several years ago where I had AF for several months lightly and then no AF for several mths. To tell you the truth the only thing that really helped was following a reduced carb diet (I still ate grains but only unrefined) and exercising.

I have read several books now and have done some online research of medical journals and there is a big movement toward the thin PCOSers getting good results by incorporating exercise 5 day/week for 30mins. This is a great book that really talks about the need to regulate the system, there is obviously a focus of fertility, but Dr. Groll seems more interested in balancing the body. You may find it helpful:"Fertility foods : optimize ovulation and conception through food choices/by Jeremy Groll, Lorie Groll." Again you need to be careful not to lose any weight really either which I initially had a problem with because I was doing more of a low carb diet vs reduced. I got down to 103 which also created a bit of a problem. It's the easiest thing to do on your own (well if you can stave off the carb cravings

) if your have a problem getting proper care in France.

I really hope the NPC will work this time. Have you tried increasing the amount of cream you are applying? It's possible you may just need to use a bit more if your started spotting. I'm going to check into a few other options for herbs and get back to you tomorrow.

jaspurr · 09-04-2008, 10:05 PM

snow--i wasn't given a dx until i was finally TTC. i am underweight so every ob/gyn would just tell me i am skinny and that is why AF wouldn't come on her own and give me more BCP.
i am going to see a RE next month as my ob won't prescribe anything besides clomid. so for about a month and a half have been taking cinnamon capsules. i used to get acne on my chin when off BCP. but for the last week or so i haven't had any. still no sign of AF, but maybe something is working.

good luck in your journey to get AF naturally!

tiana_karissa · 09-05-2008, 11:21 AM

Snow- So it was Yarrow(Achilee millefeuille in french) tea that I have used and it was helpful in bringing on AF. The tea I bought was from Hungary so I'm assuming you should be able to find it in France. I took 1 cup twice a day on an empty stomach. There are some contraindications if your trying to get preg but otherwise it should be fine.

Snow · 09-06-2008, 10:30 AM

tiana - thanks again for the info

I try to fit in an hours run every other day which I prob need to increase to do something also on the off days. I've been trying not eat refined carbs and swap with grains where possible...not always easy I must admit as I do crave carbs when trying to avoid them (though not sweet stuff as I don't have a sweet tooth).

Thanks for book recommendation, I will have a look into that. And I will have a look for the Yarrow tea here in France. There is a healthfood shop near me, but doesn't have a lot of choice of products...I usually get herbs and NPC shipped out from the UK, so if I can't find it here I should be able to find it online from the UK.

I'm currently not trying to TTC, but hoping to in the near future once I've sorted out my cycle. I'm hoping the NPC works this time, so far no spotting which is promising.

Snow · 09-07-2008, 08:05 AM

jasparr - I know what you mean by some GYN/OBs not being interested in anything other than using drugs like clomid to help with ovulation when ttc. At least you're noticing some difference with acne by using cinnamon, hopefully it will start to help with AF and TTC too

Hope all goes well with the RE.

sarah2747 · 09-07-2008, 02:08 PM

My ob/gyn also pretty much told me my pcos is no big deal until I want to TTC - at which point he would prescribe clomid. That didn't really satisfy me - no AF since Feb. 08 so I feel like something should be done. I was also told I should try to gain a bit of weight - although I always eat plentifully and haven't even exercised for months (besides regular day-to-day walking and housework). I saw the doc. again and he finally prescribed provera, after much questionning on my part! He believes met.'s side effects far outweigh the benefits.

I'm looking into cinnamon but I'm having the hardest time finding capsules!! Tiana-Karissa, I see you are in Ottawa, do you know where I could find some? And how much are they generally?

I read up on NPC and got really excited about it - only to find out you cannot find it in Canada

MWpuravida · 09-07-2008, 02:57 PM

Sarah- Have you tried getting them shipped to you from online? Silly me- looked up to see how close you were to the nearest GNC (for the supplements) and you are 1 hour and 14 minutes (approximately).
Snow- Have you considered having provera shipped to you? Would a doctor that you saw here in the states get it to you somehow?
These are both relatively naive comments, since I have no idea how that would work!

tiana_karissa · 09-08-2008, 12:21 PM

Snow- I found the Yarrow tea at a european delicatessen in Ottawa. So you may find it where they have a big assortment of regular herbal teas as well. Hopefully it will be fairly easy for you to find. If it is possible to ship to you from Canada, I'd be more than happy to pick up the cream for you and send it out.

Sarah2747- I normally shop at the Wheat Berry on Main St. They are really excellent. If they don't have it, but I believe that is where I saw it, they will get it for you quickly and their prices seem to be the best around from what I have seen. Alternatively sometimes the Loblaws/Superstore carry some of these products in there natural value section. However, I have noticed the Wheatberry to be cheaper than even Loblaws in most cases and they are much more informed and have trained staff on site. As to the NPC, I believe it is sold here as wild yam cream. I used to see it at the natural food pantry in Billings Bridge. They had recommended it to me when I was having problems.