Crying again

VivC · 11-17-2004, 02:24 AM

Three things happened today that have sent me into a downward spiral. First, April2005 lost her little Gabriel to IC. Which put me right back where I started, crying constantly. I so wanted her to have a happier ending than I did.

Second, another cyster (who recently lost her little guy due to IC) hasn't checked in for awhile, so I e-mailed to check on her. She's having some health problems (not related to the I/C), and her father's not doing well, either. How much can one person take? I feel so badly for her.

And, I finally got Rivi's actual birth certificate. I was so upset when I saw the giant "DECEASED" stamp across it. They had already written "expired" and the date/time of death in a box, so why did they have to put on the big glaring "DECEASED?" I know it's petty, but even though he didn't live very long, it seems like he deserves a normal birth certificate. DH says I'm being silly, but now I can't enroll him in my tribe, because they won't enroll posthumously. It meant a lot to me that I was finally carrying on my heritage, and now it's something else I can't share with Rivi.

On top of that, I've already posted about DH and I arguing. I called the social worker at the hospital and left a message about counseling.

I'm just done at this point. I am so NOT ready to go back to work, but financially I have no choice. Why can't I just fall apart for awhile?

ReneeBeth · 11-17-2004, 08:43 AM

I'm sorry my situation is hard for you (sounds funky, but true).
Honestly, my life sucks big time. When the **** hits the fan, it really does. I'm semi-used to it. But yes, it's hard. Basically, the way I see it, if I'm going to be depressed and miserable, bring it all on at once. But in the end, I think I could have gone without losing Daniel. That is one thing I never wish I had to experience. The thing with my dad, he was a ticking bomb, or his heart was, and I've been expecting it for years. I just wish they'd do his surgery already. He might not live through it, but just getting it done...we need to know, you know?

Anyway, don't worry about having to work. I'll fall apart more than enough for the both of us!

I'm on such a high dose of Paxil, but I think that when you have good reason to be depress, all the meds in the world won't help. But the Paxil makes it tolerable. At least I won't go killing myself or others because of this crap.
Ugh, I'm still kinda screwey, so sorry if I don't make sense. I am on percocet for the pain from the gallbladder removal. I hate pain killers, but this pain is too much to not take anything.
ANYWAY...what point did I have? I will break down and such for both of us, so you go ahead and get a job and don't worry. Things with my dad...again, don't worry. It sounds like I'm a sick person, but I won't be too upset if he dies. Now, my dad is my favorite family member, but he's in such pain...he is so miserable...and he's ALWAYS told me he won't live to see 60 years old. So I can handle whatever happens with him, no problem. I think I'll break down if I get one more major health problem, tho. It seems that I'm just physically falling apart..blah.
Maybe I should have made my own post, eh? Consider this the email I wanted to send you before

I had my ob/gyn sched for yestersay, but I didn't get out of the hospital in time. So I must remember to call them today and set up an appt ASAP. I'm still bleeding, tho. I had a lot of bleeding after surgery, don't know why. But I think at some point, the bleeding from being pregnant turned into a lighter-than-normal period. I dunno, my face broke out SO bad, I'm thinking something might have happened.
I, unlike you I guess, just want to be able to TTC again. I need to take care of a few more health problems, but I would like to start soon...try clomid again.
ugh..sorry..I'm fading away again. The pain relief aspect of the percocet is wearing off, but the tired/drunk aspect is really hitting me. I forgot what time I took the pills last, so I have to wait as long as I can to take more.

Email me as needed..babble, blurt..let it all out. I'll keep you updated on my dad. For now, his surgery will be Thursday..unless the. Dr. gets called in for another transplant

Be well...take care...*hugs*

-Renee

(p.s. - for some reason, pain killers make my..umm...down below areas tingle and it's just a very..odd feeling. I think if i wasn't still bleeding, I'd want sex right now...but alas, still bleeding..haven't had sex since a few weeks before i lost Daniel...poor hubby)

SheriKCMO · 11-17-2004, 01:25 PM

Viv,
I wish you had more time to just take care of yourself! And I totally hear you about other people's troubles causing pain... What we need in that vulnerable condition is a certain and safe world. Unfortunately, there is always something terrible happening close by. I'm very proud of you for contacting the social worker. I hope that works out well for you both.
As for your tribe, I'm enormously curious now... will you tell us which one? I know that in your heart Rivi is already part of the tribe, and to me that's what is important. It's nice to have documents for them, but sometimes we just have to know things in our hearts where our babies are safe. I sometimes think of what Mary Catherine's personality would have been like and what her voice would sound like, and those little thoughts are mine alone. My little treasures.

Thanks for posting and letting us know how you're feeling. It's good to get it out, too. You shouldn't hold back. I hope that with working, you will be distracted and comfortable at work and then able to deal with your emotional life after hours. (We can hope, right?)
((Hugs))

Renee,
Thanks for checking in.

I'm sorry to hear about your gall bladder. That seems to be a common problem around here. I hope something happens soon for your dad. It would be great if he were feeling well and could be a support for you right now. Now that we have seen our own children, we are capable of understanding how much our parents love us and want us to be happy. How long do you have to wait with your gall bladder issues to ttc? It's still so soon, your doc might want you to wait a while, but I know that ache (some days when the reality hasn't set in, I still feel it). I have needed to have a baby in my arms for almost a year now. I'm certain I have never felt the slightest percentage of joy that I will feel when this child comes out to meet us. I know I've never needed anything so deeply. One day we will all have a little one to comfort us and give us a great reason to go on. It's good to hear from moms who have had those subsequent babies, because it is a reality check that we can't eliminate our grief. I'm ready for that, but I'm also ready to have some happiness, and it sounds like you could use a big dose of it pronto!
We've been thinking of you a lot,
Sheri

AvivaElona · 11-17-2004, 04:28 PM

(((((((((Viv))))))))))))

((((((((((((Renee)))))))))))

Not a day goes by that I don't think of both of you. It may get worse before it gets better but it WILL eventually get better. Please know that I'm pulling for you and supporting both of you. You will both get to a place where memories bring you joy and peace and not tears and pain.

Viv..is it possible that if you wrote your tribal council a letter they would do an "honorary" registration of some kind? I'm sure that the no enrollment after death rule was not written for situations such as yours. Perhaps when you are ready, write them a letter telling them how much this means to you and of course how you didn't get the time to do a proper registration before Rivi passed away. It might not work, but it is worth a try. I would wait til you are more "ready" though before you do it. Right now I think that rejection would hurt too much, wait til you are stronger and then give it a chance. I hope the counselor helps, if you find you don't like her/him though, get a different one. Ok?

Aviva

VivC · 11-19-2004, 04:50 AM

Renee, don't feel badly that I'm feeling for you! It's better than feeling sorry for myself some more, right? I'm glad you checked back in, though. Do NOT go that long again, okay?

I'm half Potawatomi. I called and spoke to a wonderful man with the tribe (of course I cried through the second half of the call). He said that they can't enroll Rivi, but they can put a memorial plaque in the tribal cemetary for him. I thought that was nice of him - I'm going to give that serious thought. He's also sending me a little dreamcatcher to tie around the neck of Rivi's urn.

On the hubby side, I'm just going to paste my journal entry for today below this. My life has turned into a complete hell, and I just want to crawl into a hole until something happens to make me feel better.

Viv

November 19, 2004

Rivi,

I do not think Daddy and I are going to make it. If your purpose for coming was to bring us back together, you should have stayed. We are farther apart than when we were separated. He has been so angry lately. Whatever I do, he explodes into a terrifying rage. He slams doors, he yells, he accuses me of unimaginable things. He is angry that I am angry with God, and he is angry that I killed you.

That is what he said tonight, that I killed you. At least he finally said it â€“ I could tell he had been thinking it. He said that when I first noticed the discharge, when the doctor dismissed it while admitting he did not know what it was, I should have been smart enough to run elsewhere for a second opinion. Instead, I was stupid enough to do nothing. He said I should have found a better doctor in the first place, I should have found someone who specializes in high-risk obstetrics. Looking back, he is right. But how could I have known then? How could I have known everything that would go wrong?

Daddy said that I was so worried about incompetent cervix that I brought it on us. I was concerned because there seemed to be so many women on the PCOS message boards with it. He said I turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Then he said that it was my fault it happened because I did not have faith that God could prevent it. That is what the people at church say, too. That if I had only had enough faith, you would have lived. That is why I feel so hypocritical every time we go (now that Daddy and I are falling apart, I won't go anymore).

How can I worship a God that egotistical? If I do not do it His way, my baby dies? Then why does an evil woman get to keep her baby and raise it so badly? Why is she rewarded while I am punished, when I have spent my life trying to do the right thing?

Maybe Daddy is right. I feel so guilty that my body let you down, baby. And, if I could go back in time and warn myself, I would. I should have done more, but I honestly did not know. And it is really awful of Daddy to lay this all on my back when I already canâ€™t stand, when I canâ€™t possibly think it through clearly.

One thing I will never forgive him for: he said that we should not have stayed with you in the NICU while you were dying. He said we should have just walked away and left you there, that we should not have witnessed your final moments because it hurts him to remember you that way. If it truly hurt him that much, he could have left. I would not have blamed him, but it would have ended our marriage. There was no way I ever could have left you alone. How could he even suggest that? You were evicted from my womb too early, you fought for as long as you could to stay with us, and we thank you by letting you die alone like an unloved stray?

This is not the man I fell in love with.

SheriKCMO · 11-19-2004, 02:18 PM

Viv,
Thank you for sharing. I am frightened for you and seriously would love to hear that you have found some help for your husband, yourself, and your marriage. It sounds like he is in a lot of pain and is so angry with grief that he isn't making any sense. Each of us here knows that we did not kill our babies. We thought we were healthy and had healthy babies who would stay inside for 40 weeks, and he thought the same thing or he "should have" suggested getting another opinion when there was a change in your discharge. We simply did not know what was happening. I wish you two the best of luck, but if the relationship is hurtful in any way instead of enriching your life, don't hesitate to get some help and take a break.
We are here for you, and of course I wish we could do more.

I love the idea of recognizing Rivi in the tribal cemetery. That could give you a "place" to visit like many of us feel a need for at times. And it lends some feelings of permenance to his life and recognizes him in an official way. I hope it's possible for you to get that done sometime.

(((Major hugs)))
Sheri

AvivaElona · 11-19-2004, 03:08 PM

Oh Viv. I wish I could just wrap my arms around you. Of course your husband is not right, this was NOT your fault. He is crazed with grief and probably with the blame of his church.

I read something recently which talked about how when there is an infection in our wombs our body tries to expell the baby because it is trying to SAVE the baby. So its not even your body that failed you, its just awful chance that those bugs got in there.

I think this is your marriage and you are the one that is there and knows your situation the best, but if I were in your shoes I think I'd try to find somewhere else to go for a while. Can you go visit your parents or another friend or reletive for a few weeks? You need to be somewhere where you can think and grieve without being blamed or yelled at. And honestly with your husband this angry and slamming doors, I'm a little worried for your safety.

Please take care of yourself first, and know that you did everything you could to save Rivi,. Get yourself some good counseling, and I hope that your husband will do the same.

Many many hugs.

Aviva

GabrielsMom · 11-19-2004, 10:11 PM

Viv, today I thought of you. I thought about how Gabriel and Rivi are now playing together in heaven. Rivi is showing him around and introducing him to everyone. And someday we will both be there with them.

I'm so touched everytime I read a blog or a post and people are hurting for me. shorty1kanobi (Mandy) wrote about me in her blog and I felt honored, although I was sad to have made her cry

I can't believe how your church is treating you. I have been an evangelical Christian my entire life, and I know that what they are telling you is absolutely not true. We live in a sinful and diseased world. Being Christians does not exempt us from sorrow, no matter how much faith we have. I was looking up references about grieving today in the Bible. Jesus had grief too. He lost his best friend John (the Baptist), and the Bible talks about him retreating into solitude for a time. It's true that the Bible does that that those with the faith of a mustard seed could move mountains. But what that verse is REALLY saying is that none of us have enough faith to do anything on our own. We petition the Lord and hope that His will is the same was what we want. That's not always the case. In any case, even if their theology was correct, THEY failed YOU. Obviously, THEY did not have enough faith that a miracle would happen.

I'm going through a lot of guilt, too. I told me husband that I felt like a worthless piece of crap that I couldn't carry my baby to term. I had lost my mucous plug and trusted the doctor when he said it was probably nothing. If the doctor didn't know, after all his years of schooling, how in the WORLD would I have known that I was dilating? And I was in total denial. When I started having regular contrax, I dismissed it - thinking that there was no way I could lose the baby. It was just unimaginable to me. I'm sorry your husband is not being supportive. Unfortunately, you both need to remove yourselves from that toxic church. But nobody can control what your husband does.

Maybe your husband would be willing to go to Christian counseling? Don't get a referral from that church though. Maybe you can try calling Focus on the Family (1-800-A-FAMILY) and be referred. I was thinking about doing this myself.

I'll keep you in my prayers for the best possible outcome.

SheriKCMO · 11-20-2004, 10:46 AM

Adrianne,
Thank you so much for posting. It's much better for another Christian to answer Viv about the church matters than for me to say what I think from a copletely outside perspective. I'm glad that you can find comfort as some of my family members can, that we will see our babies again someday. There are days when that would really help me a lot, but I can't force myself to believe in something if I just don't, you know?

It seems like a small thing, but words are powerful... You said that you feel sad that you make other people cry, but please don't let yourself hear it that way. Our bodies screwed up, we didn't, because I know that none of us want to hurt our babies in any way whatsoever. Okay? Just phraseology, but it does make a difference to try and remind ourselves that this is not our fault.

I'm very proud of you for being ready to talk a little bit... it's helpful for a lot of us, including support groups in person, just to know that we are not alone. I'm glad we can be here for you.

Love to you, your family, and Gabriel,
Sheri

kwannabee · 11-20-2004, 01:18 PM

Viv...oh my....my heart goes out to you AND your dh...you are both hurting soooo much....my best wishes for you both to get the support you both need. He's lashing out at you and its sooo wrong...but even if you dont think so now you are a strong woman to be able to keep moving forward....but you know what...you WILL keep moving forward.

when i had my girls i really wanted them baptized...it was really really important to me that they be welcomed into Gods hands before they died...but i was afraid that Father wouldnt make it back in time. He told me that just the very act of 'wanting' it...of making that decision...was all my babies needed to be baptized....i dont know about how your tribe works but i hope that just the very wishes you had for little Rivi makes him carry on your heritage the way you wanted...you dont need a peice of paper for that... yOu need a circle of support around you right now...not blame and shame and lack of knowledge...please reach out to find it where ever you can...and let go of those around you who arent helping...you need more then that right now...

big big hugs to you and please know your cysters are here for you...you've been very supportive of me in the past and i'm hoping nothing but the best for you. A song just came on the radio as i type this..."i knew i loved you before i met you...i have been waiting all my life.....a thousand angels dance around you....sniff sniff

Your baby knows that....

take care...

VivC · 11-29-2004, 04:33 AM

Thank you, everyone. Things aren't really any better. Russell apologized for what he said, but then he later got mad all over again. If he wasn't really sorry, I wish he hadn't apologized.

One of the reasons we separated in the first place was violence. Then I found out about Rivi, and we went to counseling through the church before I would move back in. I thought I'd done it all right - he was so great through the entire pregnancy. Now sometimes I see the old Russell popping out again, and it scares the hell out of me. He knows that if he touches me, I WILL call the police, and it will be over. I want to go to counseling, but he won't. I keep meaning to call the support group to find out about meetings.

I don't want to go back to that church, but he says we have to go as a family. It's easier to go and ignore everybody than to fight some more. I just worked on a story during the service this morning, which ticked him off, but at least I went, right?

My MIL is a *****. She was there when Rivi was born, but when he took a turn for the worse, she refused to come to the hospital. When I called to tell her that they said Rivi was dying, MIL said that she didn't have time to come running to the hospital every time we called. Anyway, we have heard diddly from her since Rivi died, and she was angry that we'd been spending time with my mom (who has been there). MIL finally called the other day and said she was coming by to see us. I had some of the pictures of Rivi enlarged and framed for her, and she refused to take them - she said that he just looked like a fish with his mouth open in one, and in the other, the breathing tube had altered his mouth so it looked a little funny. And, he actually looks FINE in the pictures - that's why I picked those!!! At any rate, he's still my beautiful baby, her only grandbaby, and she actually had the nerve to criticize the way he looked?

My oldest sister hasn't even sent a card since Rivi died (my other sister actually paid for the cremation, etc.). So she called to wish us Happy Thanksgiving, and she didn't say a word about him. When I brought him up, telling her how hard the day had been, she made an excuse to get off of the phone.

I guess she doesn't know what to say. I seem to have lost all of my friends, except you gals, since Rivi died. Nobody returns my phone calls anymore, and the one time I tried to go out with a friend, I was so bummed being in public that it was a disaster.

I start a new job on Wednesday, but I'm so exhausted I'm afraid they'll fire me halfway through the day! I don't understand - I'm sleeping way too much, but I'm still so tired. I have a doc appt on Tuesday. Hopefully the bloodwork will explain all of this.

Sorry my update is so depressing - I just wanted to let you know I'm still here!

SheriKCMO · 11-29-2004, 02:17 PM

Viv,
You are loved here. I just want you to know that we care very much about all of these things and want to help you. I know that just having someone to talk to is a help, and if that's enough, then that's easy for us. If you need anything else, please get in touch with one of us. We want you healthy and safe, and eventually happy when that can be possible again. ((Hugs))
Your friend,
Sheri

Pamela · 11-29-2004, 03:38 PM

((((((((((((((((Viv))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Pam

VivC · 12-06-2004, 02:14 AM

I love my new job. Everyone there is SO NICE. I can't believe I was nervous. It's honestly the first job I've ever had without major drama or backstabbing! I'm glad that I ended up in a peaceful environment, since I really didn't want to go back to work yet.

DH and I are trying harder to get along. He still yells, slams doors, throws things, but I usually leave for awhile when that happens. I think if it was going to get worse, it would have by now. So, hopefully he'll eventually go to counseling with me, and we'll be okay.

He still wants another baby NOW. I don't. I can't take BCP because they screw my hormones up even more (I've tried them all), and my other options have pretty high failure rates. He won't use a condom, and, um, pulling out (bag over my head) isn't too reliable, either. I'm terrified of getting pregnant too soon (new job=no leave if something goes wrong; I'm still an emotional wreck over losing Rivi; I want my body to have a chance to heal more), so I'm making excuse after excuse not to have sex. At the same time, he's accusing me of having an affair (LOL!!!) because I don't want to have sex with him. Argh! I just wish he'd try to understand more.

We both miss Rivi, and a huge explosion usually comes when we haven't talked about him for awhile. We're trying. I don't have the energy to do it all, though. So hopefully he'll come around.