I have been doing a lot of research over the past week about estrogen dominance and low progesterone and found what seems to be a good alternative that is also ok to take with vitex.
Here is an article that I found about DIM and overall concern about estrogen. I have purchased some and will be starting it within a few weeks.
Will you be taking it the whole cycle or certain days only?
Thanks,
__________________ Connie
Age: 28
Dx in 2001
TTC x 2 years
Tried Clomid/Met/Dexamethasone/IUI... unsuccessfully
Going natural...
"Hey, What do I have to lose?"
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__________________ Connie
Age: 28
Dx in 2001
TTC x 2 years
Tried Clomid/Met/Dexamethasone/IUI... unsuccessfully
Going natural...
"Hey, What do I have to lose?"
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I just heard about DIM, a did a little research on it, which I thought I'd post here.
I have a good friend from high school who lives in Seattle and attended Bastyr University, which is the premiere alternative nutrition school in N America if not the world. I got frustrated a couple of weeks ago with my ND here in NC, and called my friend to ask her what she knew about PCOS. She is a certified RN and nutritionist, and is really big on using nutrition and natural supplements to treat disease.
She told me about DIM, and a researcher in Boulder CO (my hometown, coincidentally), Michael Zeligs, who's been studying DIM and its impact on PCOS. Here's one article by him: http://www.dimfaq.com/site/cruchoice.htm
(It's not the most useful one, but it's the one I found so far...).
Anyway, based on what my friend told me about DIM and its effect on PCOS and what little I've found on the internet, I'm going to try this out. I am surprised there isn't more discussion of DIM because it sounds like such a fabulous supplement, but maybe it's just little known.
Anyone else have experience with this supplement? Those of you who wrote about this earlier, are you still taking it, is it still helpfuL?
Hi girls. I'm new on this board. I was just wondering about using the DIM while TTC. We've been trying since August 05, and I just started metformin. I know I've got some estrogen dominant problems. Could it hurt our chances of conceiving??
Thanks girls.
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DIM is not recommended for those who are pregnant, but TTC I don't know. On the back of my bottle it says not to take it if you're on BCPs or pregnant. However, you should check out this website and request a free information packet. It has a lot of information you may find useful. There's so much to type on the subject but this information packet is a good start. I actually talked to Dr. Zelgis myself and he said that taking the DIM while on BCPs is ok, that there just weren't any formal studies done on the interactions. That's probably true for pregnant women as well. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks for all the info hun. I really don't think it is going to hurt. I'm going to keep taking it. I wish it would make my period stop. lol This is day 10. I'm about to lose it. If I find out anything new I'll post the link.
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No problemo. I think you should get the free information packet. It's actually really nice and there is a ton of information in it that you might find useful.
I also found this article about DIM which I3C is a derivative of or vice versa...cant remember. From the research I have done, it appears that DIM may be a little more stable and may not have some of the negative possible effects that I3C has. The article is about the strong antiandrogenic effects on DIM. Its an interesting research topic. I may give it a try and came across it while researching my cervical issues (bad pap that requires a colposcopy,) apparently it has the effect of reversing cervial dysplasia in some women. I may give it a try. Anyway, heres the report: http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/23/21136
from the report:
To examine the androgen antagonist effects of DIM, we conducted a series of cell proliferation and gene activation studies in androgen-dependent (LNCaP) and androgen-independent (PC-3) human prostate cancer cell lines. LNCaP cells were derived from lymph node metastasis, and PC-3 cells were derived from bone metastasis (22, 23, 24, 25). We found that DIM is a strong antiandrogen that inhibited androgen-dependent tumor cell growth and competitively inhibited androgen receptor translocation and signal transduction. In addition, DIM down-regulated prostate-specific antigen (PSA) expression at the transcriptional level. Results from androgen receptor (AR) competitive binding assays, nuclear translocation studies, and structural modeling computations suggest that DIM disrupts AR function in a manner similar to a chemically dissimilar synthetic antiandrogen, Casodex. Our results identify DIM as a structurally novel, naturally occurring, pure androgen antagonist of potential cancer preventive and therapeutic usefulness for prostate cancer.
__________________ Diagnosed 06/03
Hair loss, Acne, painful Fibrocystic breasts,
Excess Hair on chin, Irregular periods (too frequent, too long.) Not IR. Using acne.org system (love it- it works)
Well that's exactly why I'm using it now. I've had abnormal paps for about two years now and one time I had a colposcopy and I never want one of those again! I initially read someone's post about I3C reducing chin and neck hair, but when I started researching I3C vs. DIM it seemed DIM was the way to go for me. I haven't noticed anything different about my hair, but then again I've only been taking it for about 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted. I have another pap on the 30th and I'm sure that one's going to be abnormal too. I really think you should get the information packet. It's completely free and it's VERY nice. It's a nice folder with all these research articles, charts, and a little book. Go to www.bioresponse.com and ask for one. Talk soon.
I just wanted to balance out the discussion (about I3C) as I put in a fair amount of time into researching this debate. This may be longwinded and I am going to repost some of my old messages with new working links, so here it goes:
I take I-3-C (indole-3-carbinol), which is a precursor to DIM and is a naturally occurring compound derived from cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and cabbage. So, when I-3-C is broken down via stomach acid, one of the bi-products is DIM. I gradually started incorporating this supplement at the end of May to help with my estrogen dominance. So far, so good!! It's really helped with my dry eyes. It's only been alittle over a month, I can't wait to see what 3 full months will do. I am also hoping it will also help my thyroid disfunction (according to BBT I am hypothyroid, but all blood tests say my thyroid function is normal). One of the side effects of estrogen dominance is interference with thyroid hormone activity. If I understand correctly estrogen binds to T3 and T4 making them inactive in the tissue, so by metabolizing excess estrogen, it will in turn allow free up the thyroid hormones to be more active in the tissue.
I have found that there is some controversy as to which is more beneficial DIM or I-3-C. I found alot of info on the web against the use of I-3-C, most of which is written by Michael A. Zeligs, M.D. http://www.dimfaq.com/site/cruchoice.htm He appears to have great credentials, but he is definitely biased towards the dim over the i3c. I wondered why.
I was perplexed as my naturopath never recommended DIM. So, I researched further only to find that Michael A. Zeligs is financially tied to an organization that manufactures and sells DIM (I believe someone already posted this). The American College for Adveancement of Medicine confirms this, see here: http://www.metagenics.com/pdf/pp_aca...er_7-15-05.pdf
For those of you that don't want to read a long paper, here is Dr. Deanna M. Minich's summary table comparing I3C and DIM:
The salient points from this article have been summarized for you in the following table. Table 1. A comparison of I3C to DIM
I3C
DIM
Source
Formed as a breakdown product of glucosinolates (compound found naturally in cruciferous vegetables)
Formed as a breakdown product of I3C ingestion, with adequate stomach acid
Amount required for health benefits
200-400 mg daily in supplemental form, as determined by clinical trials
Unknown (not tested to date)
Number of references listed in the National Library of Medicine
361
64
Evidence of safety
Extensive use in cell, animal, and human studies; NIH has published a toxicology report
Unknown, as studies are limited
Health benefits
Strong evidence in favor of chemoprevention and hormone (particularly estrogen) balance
Some scant evidence on its role in chemoprevention
Activity
A variety of unique compounds produced after ingestion
Does not break down into other valuable compounds
She has 3 1/2 pages of references that are worth checking out.
I am sticking with the I-3-C as it is working for me and it is a brand I have used and trusted for some time now. I am very curious to hear about other girls experiences with these supplements, so please keep me posted. There is not alot of info on this messageboard about cruciferous vegetable supplements, so I was happy to see this thread.
Keep me posted,
BUBU
__________________ If your heart is a volcano, how shall you expect flowers to bloom?
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Hi girls. Well...I've been taking the DIM for a little over a week, and I can tell a difference already in my mood, energy. I'm also taking slow release iron, maca, and baby aspirin, and some prenatals, but I've been on all the other things for a long time. I see the research shows I-3-C to be a better product, but I think I'm going to stick with the DIM for now and see how it goes.
Thanks for all the info on estrogen dom. I have pcos, and I know i"m estrogen dom. I hope you girls have a great day. I'll be checking in.
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Its hard to tell whos just trying to sell something with those two supplements. Is it possible that the doctor that wrote the above paper has a financial stake in the company that provides the I3C and they are not able to sell DIM for some reason? Its all just so confusing. I read reports that say I3C is less stable and other safety concerns. It wasnt all from the same doctor or source. I dont know what form is best to take myself. But I did find info about both but what I saw mostly was that DIM was best for helping the body fight off HPV and therefore helped with cervical dysplasia and saw articles about it being an antiandrogen, which is also something I would like to try as well. I say if something is working for you there is no reason to switch. I just ordered some DIM and will give that a go, I may switch over if I see no results or have no results with my cervical issues getting any better.
Who all is using I3C here? Maybe we can start comparing the two supplements and see what results we are all getting? Are those taking I3C getting some antiandrogenic activity and/or also having improved cervical issues? Is anyone here taking DIM and getting either of those results? Maybe we should start some kind of thread comparing results, not as a contest in anyway, just to see what benefits are possible with either supplement?
__________________ Diagnosed 06/03
Hair loss, Acne, painful Fibrocystic breasts,
Excess Hair on chin, Irregular periods (too frequent, too long.) Not IR. Using acne.org system (love it- it works)
DIM (Diindolylmethane) 
BUMP!! 
