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Old 04-20-2009, 03:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Hair Color Problems from PCOS?

Hey- does anyone else have this?

I use to be able to get a really nice dyed pale light blonde color on my naturally light brown hair. Since I've had the PCOS, I cannot get my blonde to be the same. It's always this real brassy golden blonde- and anytime I get it done professionally, and I ask for them to make it more pale, it doesn't really work. It only turns greenish, and stays brassy. So I go back to home dying it- because I can mess it up myself for $20 vs. having it messed up for $100! :-/ What is going on? Do you think this could be hormone related?

~Lulu
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Acupuncture/Chinese Medicine
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Things I'm doing now:
Back on the Alesse 08/09
Poke Root oil compresses
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I was thinking the same thing! I have medium brown hair and have been dying it red for years, and as soon as I went off BCP, I noticed within a couple of months that my hair wasn't taking the color the same way. It is much darker and wears off much sooner. I still dye it since a little red is better than nothing, but I've tried all different shades of red and nothing works. I can't find any literature explaining it yet, but it must be horomone related.

Do you know if there is some sort of herb to take to correct this? I miss my red hair!
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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i've only dyed my hair once and i dyed it a darker brown than what i am naturally. but it's weird because i had it dyed back in august of 07.. and haven't had to dye it since.. my hair started growing in the exact same color as i had dyed it!!

has that ever happened to any of you all?
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I personally believe that the excess androgens affect hair color (on your head hair) -- and I think that it does make it darker -- I wonder about the brassy thing though - do you think that is function of darker hair -- or do you think that is something unique to PCOS or excess androgen and not merely a function of darker natural hair color. By the way I have the brassy thing to and I totally want to attribute the darkening of my hair color to PCOS/excess male hormones.

Also does anyone else feel like that their natural haircolor is not a good match to their skin -- like it is really supposed to be another color if it weren't for the PCOS?
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't agree with the making it darker hypothesis. My hair has gone from nearly black to a golden brown in the past 5 years and my hormone and androgen problems have been all over the place.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey girls

Yeah, it's odd... I only know that if you wash your hair in potato water (if you boil potatoes and then wash your hair with that water) it will make it darker (I've done this - when I was 14). And dandelion root used to make my hair grow-because it helps detox the liver... So I guess it helps metabolize the hormones?

But other than that I don't know of any herbs to help with hair color.

I used to have a "color specialist"... but then I moved... When I'm looking at my half brassy, half green streaked hair in the mirror -I always think she would know what to do...

~Lulu
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Me: 28 & DH: 33
(not ttc quite yet)

Had PCOS since: 09/06 (sudden onset-or so it seemed) Was diagnosed via blood work/ ultrasound: 05/07- Slightly High Testosterone, IR

Things I've tried:
BCPs: Alesse and Levora from 08/07 to 1/08
Acupuncture/Chinese Medicine
Chiropractic
Herbs
Hyponidd
High Protien/no sugar/no carb diet
Evening Primrose Oil
NAC
Gleditsia (Chinese zào jiá )
Metformin 500mg

Things I'm doing now:
Back on the Alesse 08/09
Poke Root oil compresses
Exercising (sometimes)
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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hi ladies.
i am a hairdresser and i am wondering about the green streaks. what were you having done when that happened? getting lowlites? sometimes that can happen if you use an ash or neutral based color on previously lightned hair. it will turn mudddy or green. the only way to get rid of that is either rebleach those peices or cover with a reddish brown color to even it out and get rid of the green/cover the blond.
for the brassy highlites, you have to make sure that on darker hair you leave the product on long enough to break through the red/orange/gold stages. some tips
1.try leaving it on an extra 5 or 10 minutes.
2. if you are still seeing brass after rinsing the color off, use a purple shampoo like shimmer lights or joico violet, either full strength or mix equal with your reg shp depending on how brassy you are. lather up and let it sit for 2-4 minutes. if you do this right after you color the hair will suck it up and it will tone it down until the color mellows out on its on. you can always use the shp a few days a week also.

i do this on clients who need toning but not a full fledged toner application, especially if i don't want it darker, just asher. works well on my sister who is a dark blonde getting darker with age and a child.

for the red situation, the only thing i can recommend is using a higher volume developer. if you are buying box color from the store, permanent color usually has standard lift 20 v peroxide developer, if you go to sallys or a local beauty supply they can give you 30 volume. it is extra lift. you may just want to get your color from somewhere like that and get a compatible developer to match. it will help lift your natural color a little more than the 20v so you will look a little brighter red.

Hope that helps!
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoyannaWants2BaMommy View Post
hi ladies.
i am a hairdresser.
Awesome oyannaWants2BaMommy! Thank you for the great information!

I have some questions for you!

Quote:
If you are buying box color from the store, permanent color usually has standard lift 20 v peroxide developer,
Really? I had the impression that they were different and that the difference in the strength of the developer corresponded to the "number on the box" like 8 or 9 or 10 . . . is that not right? or is the difference in the strength of the developer for the drug store boxed products not a great as the difference in the strengths for the ones like at Sally's that I think have numbers like 10, 20, 30, and 40.

Quote:
for the brassy highlites, you have to make sure that on darker hair you leave the product on long enough to break through the red/orange/gold stages. some tips
1.try leaving it on an extra 5 or 10 minutes.
. . . . . .
Quote:
for the red situation, the only thing i can recommend is using a higher volume developer. if you are buying box color from the store, permanent color usually has standard lift 20 v peroxide developer, if you go to sallys or a local beauty supply they can give you 30 volume. it is extra lift. you may just want to get your color from somewhere like that and get a compatible developer to match. it will help lift your natural color a little more than the 20v so you will look a little brighter red.
I also had the impression that one of the things that could go terribly wrong (brassy or even red wise) was when you try to go significantly lighter in color than what your natural color is -- and that the way to make hair lighter is to use a stronger developer or I think perhaps to a lesser extent to leave it on longer . . . or both. Could you explain more about how to get a decent home result if your hair is say naturally a very dark blond to a medium brown and you want to go for a medium blond or a bit lighter - with neither excessive brassy/red or too blue/ash? With things being the way they are right now I am looking to start doing it myself again. One thing that I have used in the past with varying success is something call "drabber" along with the other stuff in the box which I think is supposed to get rid of the red/brassiness.

I was also just thinking the other day - when you get it done professionally - they put you under a dryer - and use heat as part of the process - the last time I was at good will I saw one of those old fashioned home dryers with the hose and the big cap that blows up with warm air. . . would one of those be helpful? I bet I could find one for coloring my hair - if I looked around!

I would also like to know which products you think are best (and safest from a chemical prospective) -- last time I did mine was my first time out in a long time - I had been getting highlights -I got a box of garnier that was one sale - I am not completely happy with the result (too red and not light enough - I probably picked the wrong one - but it does not make me feel pretty!) and I was also a little concerned that there was a scary warning regarding using the product if you have a tattoo (which I do not - but I plan to dye my hair forever and I don't want my lifetime exposure of something scary to be too high). I have done the box thing and the sally's thing -- I think the box thing is easier . . . .I also have a friend who owns a spa - she has offered to take me wholesale professional shampoo shopping - I imagine she would help be get real professional hair coloring products too if I ask (and if that is even something you would recommend) -- again one of my criteria is safe from a chemical prospective or even more natural -- at one time I was buying my boxes at the health food store!
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have not used store color in many years, but I did use it as a teen for quite a few years so here goes...

Quote:
Really? I had the impression that they were different and that the difference in the strength of the developer corresponded to the "number on the box" like 8 or 9 or 10 . . . is that not right? or is the difference in the strength of the developer for the drug store boxed products not a great as the difference in the strengths for the ones like at Sally's that I think have numbers like 10, 20, 30, and 40.
In box color there are 3 things
1. the type of color:
usually temporary 6-8 shps is labeled 1 (think loving care, does not have a bottle of developer it is premixed) or
30 day color semi (think nat instincts) is usually a level 2
and permanent color or hiliting kits or ultra blonde type colors are level 3
anything that lightens your natural color is permanent although that does not mean the color will last as we all know it fades
temp or semi color will not make you any lighter it only darkens
if you want to go any lighter or cover gray you would want to go with permanent
2. the # on the box (like 8G) is referring to the darkness or lightness of the color in the kit, what it will deposit. that is why semi colors say choose a level or two lighter than desired because is will only get darker.
3. the letter is the tone/shade of the color gold, ash, neutral, etc.

unless it is a high lift ultra blond type color kit that is made for getting the hair a very light blonde, permanent level 3 colors in a box probably have standard lift 20 v peroxide.

ok, onto that...
10, 20, 30 or 40 volume peroxide is the developer. what is does is lighten your natural color. it breaks down the natural pigment in your hair cortex, and as it lightens and breaks down the color, it goes through stages of red, orange, gold, yellow. the difference in these is the percent of peroxide. the higher the volume the FASTER AND STRONGER IT WORKS. 10 v is usually when you want the same level or just a touch lighter. 20 vol is called standard lift. it usually works for most purposes, it lightens a little and covers grey. 30 and 40 v are used on very dark or hard to lift hair or in extra light blonding kits.
they all lighten. with color the reaason the box says stay within two shades of your nat color is because 20 peroxide lifts appx two levels within the time limit that the color is supposed to be on. when you use color the first thing it does is lift then deposits color back in. with color a few minutes usually wont hurt, it just stops lifting and starts depositing after a while so with color how many levels you want to go up will be determined by the volume developer.

ok, i know its confusing!

Quote:
I also had the impression that one of the things that could go terribly wrong (brassy or even red wise) was when you try to go significantly lighter in color than what your natural color is -- and that the way to make hair lighter is to use a stronger developer or I think perhaps to a lesser extent to leave it on longer . . . or both
correct!


Quote:
for the red situation, the only thing i can recommend is using a higher volume developer. if you are buying box color from the store, permanent color usually has standard lift 20 v peroxide developer, if you go to sallys or a local beauty supply they can give you 30 volume. it is extra lift. you may just want to get your color from somewhere like that and get a compatible developer to match. it will help lift your natural color a little more than the 20v so you will look a little brighter red.
this was directed towards the problem that giftygirl was having, her red color not being as 'bright' as before. she would have to go to a little higher developer to get that extra lift. also maybe try a level lighter red, like instead of a 5 go to 6.

Quote:
I was also just thinking the other day - when you get it done professionally - they put you under a dryer - and use heat as part of the process - the last time I was at good will I saw one of those old fashioned home dryers with the hose and the big cap that blows up with warm air. . . would one of those be helpful? I bet I could find one for coloring my hair - if I looked around!
this is only when you are using a HILITING OR BLEACH KIT. color should not be put under a dryer or heat (unless you are using a special 'color accelerator' that speed developing time- won't open that can of worms right now) yes you could do that though. if your doing cap hilites, just put a plastic baggie on it so it doesn't dry out. if it drys it quits processing.


Quote:
explain more about how to get a decent home result if your hair is say naturally a very dark blond to a medium brown and you want to go for a medium blond or a bit lighter - with neither excessive brassy/red or too blue/ash? With things being the way they are right now I am looking to start doing it myself again. One thing that I have used in the past with varying success is something call "drabber" along with the other stuff in the box which I think is supposed to get rid of the red/brassiness.
depending on how dark your med brown/dark blonde is i think you would probably want to go the sallys route and get color with 30 v standard 20 will probably lift you to a very orange/gold and will not be strong enough to cover when it deposits. from what it sounds like you are prob a level 5 or 6 wanting to be a level 8or 9. you would need to go with a neutral shade it is balanced. try to get a level color that either 8 or 9 prob 8 though to get enough deposit, and follow the directions don't leave on more than 5 minutes extra. the drabber is an ash toner basically, they can help with any brass or red.

PS: if you do this and it don't turn out right, don't hate me! its hard to say not being able to see your hair or formulate the color.

As far as 'chemically safe' I am assuming you mean how magazines and tv says color causes cancer and stuff. Women that colored their hair in the 70s and 80s are where those studies usually come from. Modern color formulas are safe, especially if you are only coloring your hair. Hairdressers that do color all day just need to wear gloves and avoid excess fumes, so you will be ok, unless you have had allergic reactions or something. Be wary of 'natural' hair color alot of them are just henna color. if you have used henna color you should not put any conventional color at all on your hair, you need to cut all the color out, you cannot color over. it will be very bad. so make sure what you were using wasn't henna color.
i have never came accross the tattoo warning. just don't get it in your eyes or stuff like that. if you are ttc or preg just ask the dr if its ok. most say it is.

definately take your friend up on prof shopping, you can get a good deal on shampoo/conditioners. professional products make a HUGE DIFFERENCE
and i am not saying that cause I am a professional. They just do, they are higher quality and will make a huge difference in color longevity, condition of hair, manageability. I do use them on myself. I take my cousin to the stores or order her stuff, so def do that.

ok me tired now!

hope that helps.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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well i th0ought it was just my hair dresser. I get a glaze copper brown which gives my hair a reddish color in the sun really pretty and the greys turn a copper color really cool. Buy the last two times in two weeks my greys didnt hold the color. I couldnt believe it. I paid 95.00 not including tip. So the 2nd time i mentioned it to my hair guy so he left it in longer and didnt wash it out completely and told me not to wash it for four days, same think happened. Plus towards the neckline there were a few hairs about 2 inches from the scalap that were grey that was after 1 1/2 weeks. I've decided no more its outta my budget. I just need to figure out how to do it myself. I'm scared to do it so i will wait until i'm on vacation-lol!
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am so glad I found this thread!
I've been having trouble dying my hair, it never occured to me that it could be pcos related.
I have very light brown hair, almost reddish blond, I wanted black. In december, I gought a box of hair color did it myself. Followed the directions, didnt work at all, made it a tiny bit darker.
so then I had it professionally dyed. It lasted about a week. I dont know what to do anymore.
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