Health Costs in Australia vs other countries...an observation

Mez · 10-07-2003, 06:26 AM

Not a rant, just an observation......

When I head to this message board I always look at the posts since last visit option.

One item I find interesting is the cost of healthcare, particularly in the US. Some of the figures quoted are outrageous!

I am extremely thankful that we have Medicare in place. I have always taken it for granted, and would HATE to lose this service in Australia.

Even when I lived in the UK I never paid a cent! Even my Pill prescriptions were covered by NHS then.

Mez.

Emmando · 10-07-2003, 09:14 PM

Mez

I agree with you! We are very lucky here to get the support that we do although a lot of people would say its not enough. I believe its a good balance. In the UK because all health care is free then you get huge waiting lists, i even waited 11 hours in emergency to be assessed when i broke my neck. As well as tax, every earner is charged a National Health levy which is pretty steep. So although England is always quoted as having a lower tax than Australia it doesnt take this levy into account. I am much happier paying for private health insurance over here as i pay a lot less and i get better service. As long as there is a safety net in place for those who really cant afford it then im happy.

So what do you reckon about the plan to not allow higher income earners access to medicare? I havent read much about it but am assuming that i would probably be out of pocket to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars a year. I worry that people will only go to the doctors when they are really sick and not go for some health checks ie skin cancer checks or smears if they have to pay. I know when i go to the docs i only see them about my "worst" or most immediate difficulty and never get round to mentioning some of the other stuff - PCOS being a perfect example as i didnt ask questions after diagnosis for over 10 years.

Anyway JMHO what does anyone else reckon?

Em

Mez · 10-07-2003, 09:39 PM

here goes!

I don't have private health insurance, nor do I plan on getting any unless it becomes compulsory.

My family's experiences (Mum, Dad & Bro) have been really good with Doctor and hospital visits.

On the other hand I have countless numbers of friends and family who, while they pay through the nose for private insurance, always have to fork out more whether it's having a baby or any of those other ancilliary benefits. I find that their attitudes to treatment is based on how mant benefits they have remaining for that year.

If I need treatment I go and get it when I need it- optical, dental, RE, Naturopath, whatever! The money that I spend on this, to me is about the same as forking out for insurance. At least my way I can save it and earn some interest.

Quote:

So what do you reckon about the plan to not allow higher income earners access to medicare

I haven't read much about this either, so don't know all the facts, but my initial thoughts are that I disagree. Everyone should be entitled to Medicare access, regardless of how much you earn. When you here about all these stories of rich fat cats, it's targetted at such a tiny protion of the population. I think it just takes the focus away from helping those in need. For some reason the media perpetuates the division bw the haves and have nots. Sure, charge "higher" income earners more tax but then don't blow it by sending politicians on overseas jaunts. Give it to people who *need* it.

In theory I would not be opposed to an increase in the Medicare levy to cover these instances.

My main gripe with something like this is the Tax Office definitions of a high income earner. They should raise the threshold as there are so many families out there whose piddly annual increases unfortunately make them the target of bracket creeping.

Written and authorised by the Vote Mez for Prez party.

(PS. yes, I do realise we have a PM and not a President, but that's another rant for another time.)

AllyB · 10-07-2003, 09:41 PM

I agree-- I have lived in the US, UK and Australia and have to say I am most impressed with the Australian health system.

The UK health system is appalling. When I lived there I tried to get an appointment for a pap test and I was told I would have to wait 8 months. When I was sick it took me 3 days to see a "doctor" - who it turned out was out that day - I saw a nurse who merely handed me a prescription for penicillin without a) assessing what was wrong with me or b) asking if I had any drug allergies! DH's sister had her fist baby in London- in a ward with open rooms (i.e. 12 women per room) and did not see a doctor until she had been in labor for 30-some hours!

My DH is a doctor and worked in the UK system. He thinks the main problem is really the lack of nurses - you have two nurses managing a floor of 35-40 people and they just can't keep up. He was the 1st doctor to see patients after they had been admitted- in some cases they had been there 2 days- because the nursing staff was so overwhelmed that they just couldn't keep up with the patients. And he said the get paid something appalling, like 3 pounds an hour.

In Australia- I have been very impressed with the quality of care and the low cost. I do not qualify for Medicare since I do not have permanent residency, but a year ago I was in a horse riding accident and shattered my arm. I was taken to Gosford Hospital, a public hospital. I was treated as a private patient (since I don't have medicare) but I was very impressed with the standard of care. It was a long weekend and only one operating theatre was open but I only had to wait 4 hours (from the time I was brought to the hospital) for my 1st surgery, and was able to have the second surgery the next day. I had a third surgery at St Luke's Hospital in Sydney and really, at both I had excellent care. The nurses were so good and the surgeons were world-class. And even though I had to pay for it all (I was reimbursed by my US-based private health care) - my total costs so far (Including physical therapy 2x/week for 12 weeks) were only A$13k. I couldn't even imagine how much it would have been in the US... for example my anesthetist (sp?) bill was only A$550 - in the US it would have been at least US$5000. I really think the public/private system in this country works so well- to keep costs down throughout the system and to keep the level of care world-class.

Tollee · 10-07-2003, 11:00 PM

I'm with you on Mez... I think Medicare is great. And I don't have private cover, and won't get it unless it becomes complusory. I just can't make sense of it. I sat down and did the sums a couple of times and the extra 1% levy (if a couple earns over 100K or single over 50K) isn't as much as what you would pay for the private cover. And even with the "no gap" system in place, it seems you always end up paying extra when ever you use the health system.

The only draw back I have come accross in not having Priv Cover, was when I had my lap surgery - I had to wait for 4 months through the public system (which I didn't find to be THAT long a wait really). If I had Priv cover, I would have only had to wait maybe one month, but I would have also been out of pocket some (I can't remember the exact numbers now - but my girlfriend had her lap private, and I know she was still out of pocket in the end)

I have had great care through my pregnancy using the public system. And I haven't been out of pocket once. If there is a problem., they send you straight to see the dr or squeeze you in for an ultrasound... The quality of care I've experienced has been very high.

On the other side of the story - I can understand why alot of Dr's are no longer bulk billing for private consultations and common procedures, and tests. Now even though each year the medicare fees paid to drs are changed (generally they are increased) for some of the most common tests and procedures the fee has been steadily dropping over the last few years. And any increases that are given are generally quite low.

I haven't read much about the higher income earners and their access to medicare in the future either. So can't comment there...

Emmando · 10-08-2003, 12:53 AM

Im with you that it would be cheaper to pay the 1% levy, however im lucky enough to be in a position to afford private health care. Im just a weirdo as i believe because i am a high income earner i can and should pay for as much of my health care as possible - to leave the medicare for the people that need it. Ive never been particularly money oriented but then again im lucky enough to be in a good position (dont get me wrong ive have also been in serious debt to pay for Uni etc)

Although i have a top of the range health policy it is amazing what things arent covered (organised through my work so its pretty good value and gets taken out of my salary so i dont notice it as much

). Ie when i couldnt sleep it would cover expensive sleeping tablets indefinately but wouldnt cover a hypnotherapist ($60 and only one visit!). Each year i probably have a gap of about $500 (dental, glasses, tests etc for all 3 of us). All my lap was covered apart from the anaesthatist which i was out of pocket about $80.

My concern about the high income earners is that the cut off is $50k per year. A family living on this would probably be paying $2k minumum for private health insurance(if at all) and then if they had to pay for all doctors visits and things not covered by their insurance they would be out of pocket by thousands more.

Em

faeryvixen83 · 03-31-2008, 01:27 AM

you guys in australia are lucky...here in the states, i believe 40 plus million i believe are uninsured..and the number keeps on growing...its really sad that these huge billion dollar insurance companies can't be reasonable...frankly its very very disgusting

februarystar · 03-31-2008, 06:05 AM

Economic logic says that if you can buy things on a greater scale, each individual item (or in this case a 'unit' of healthcare) is cheaper than if you bought it seperately. Thats why public health systems are cheaper item by item and in the US. As an insurance company they don't have the same bargaining power as a government does.

(theoretically of course!)

We are looking into insurance after major dramas with ACC. The New Zealand public health system has never let anyone I know down in an emergency. But if you aren't urgent you will have to wait unless you can pay. & despite ACC being an Accident Compensation Corporation, we've struggled for months to get compensation for a legit accident. We certainly wont get insurance to cover GP visits, optometrists and dentists but it will definately be there for the major surgeries and issues.

10-07-2003, 06:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mez Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 498 My Mood: Points: 2,070.47 Bank: 14,559.61 Total Points: 16,630.08 Donate	Health Costs in Australia vs other countries...an observation Not a rant, just an observation...... When I head to this message board I always look at the posts since last visit option. One item I find interesting is the cost of healthcare, particularly in the US. Some of the figures quoted are outrageous! I am extremely thankful that we have Medicare in place. I have always taken it for granted, and would HATE to lose this service in Australia. Even when I lived in the UK I never paid a cent! Even my Pill prescriptions were covered by NHS then. Mez.

10-07-2003, 09:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
Emmando Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 153 Points: 768.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 768.00 Donate	Mez I agree with you! We are very lucky here to get the support that we do although a lot of people would say its not enough. I believe its a good balance. In the UK because all health care is free then you get huge waiting lists, i even waited 11 hours in emergency to be assessed when i broke my neck. As well as tax, every earner is charged a National Health levy which is pretty steep. So although England is always quoted as having a lower tax than Australia it doesnt take this levy into account. I am much happier paying for private health insurance over here as i pay a lot less and i get better service. As long as there is a safety net in place for those who really cant afford it then im happy. So what do you reckon about the plan to not allow higher income earners access to medicare? I havent read much about it but am assuming that i would probably be out of pocket to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars a year. I worry that people will only go to the doctors when they are really sick and not go for some health checks ie skin cancer checks or smears if they have to pay. I know when i go to the docs i only see them about my "worst" or most immediate difficulty and never get round to mentioning some of the other stuff - PCOS being a perfect example as i didnt ask questions after diagnosis for over 10 years. Anyway JMHO what does anyone else reckon? Em __________________ Em (31) DH (Simon) (30) DS (Toby) 3 and a half Dx PCOS 1987 Drill Hole surgery, lap,hyst and Dye both tubes blocked - left one now clear woohoo! TTC #2 March 2000 to Aug03 - On hold i need my life back!!! 85/70/65 (kg) Max pg weight 98kg

10-08-2003, 12:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
Emmando Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 153 Points: 768.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 768.00 Donate	Im with you that it would be cheaper to pay the 1% levy, however im lucky enough to be in a position to afford private health care. Im just a weirdo as i believe because i am a high income earner i can and should pay for as much of my health care as possible - to leave the medicare for the people that need it. Ive never been particularly money oriented but then again im lucky enough to be in a good position (dont get me wrong ive have also been in serious debt to pay for Uni etc) Although i have a top of the range health policy it is amazing what things arent covered (organised through my work so its pretty good value and gets taken out of my salary so i dont notice it as much ). Ie when i couldnt sleep it would cover expensive sleeping tablets indefinately but wouldnt cover a hypnotherapist ($60 and only one visit!). Each year i probably have a gap of about $500 (dental, glasses, tests etc for all 3 of us). All my lap was covered apart from the anaesthatist which i was out of pocket about $80. My concern about the high income earners is that the cut off is $50k per year. A family living on this would probably be paying $2k minumum for private health insurance(if at all) and then if they had to pay for all doctors visits and things not covered by their insurance they would be out of pocket by thousands more. Em __________________ Em (31) DH (Simon) (30) DS (Toby) 3 and a half Dx PCOS 1987 Drill Hole surgery, lap,hyst and Dye both tubes blocked - left one now clear woohoo! TTC #2 March 2000 to Aug03 - On hold i need my life back!!! 85/70/65 (kg) Max pg weight 98kg

03-31-2008, 06:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
februarystar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 560 My Mood: Points: 429.70 Bank: 92,500.22 Total Points: 92,929.92 Donate	Economic logic says that if you can buy things on a greater scale, each individual item (or in this case a 'unit' of healthcare) is cheaper than if you bought it seperately. Thats why public health systems are cheaper item by item and in the US. As an insurance company they don't have the same bargaining power as a government does. (theoretically of course!) We are looking into insurance after major dramas with ACC. The New Zealand public health system has never let anyone I know down in an emergency. But if you aren't urgent you will have to wait unless you can pay. & despite ACC being an Accident Compensation Corporation, we've struggled for months to get compensation for a legit accident. We certainly wont get insurance to cover GP visits, optometrists and dentists but it will definately be there for the major surgeries and issues. __________________ Diagnosed Aug 2005. Symptoms: No periods, obese, excessive hair Currently on Norimin & back on Metformin, Previously on Diane/Estelle-35 Loving To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ... High Protein/Fibre diet To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Finished my Nutrition degree! (BSc), One year to go for my BCom (Economics) Graduate - Dec 08! Save Lives, Give Blood I also have ocular herpes (coldsores in the eye) Keen to talk to anyone else with the same problem!

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10-07-2003, 09:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
AllyB Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia (originally from PA) Posts: 37 Points: 115.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 115.00 Donate	I agree-- I have lived in the US, UK and Australia and have to say I am most impressed with the Australian health system. The UK health system is appalling. When I lived there I tried to get an appointment for a pap test and I was told I would have to wait 8 months. When I was sick it took me 3 days to see a "doctor" - who it turned out was out that day - I saw a nurse who merely handed me a prescription for penicillin without a) assessing what was wrong with me or b) asking if I had any drug allergies! DH's sister had her fist baby in London- in a ward with open rooms (i.e. 12 women per room) and did not see a doctor until she had been in labor for 30-some hours! My DH is a doctor and worked in the UK system. He thinks the main problem is really the lack of nurses - you have two nurses managing a floor of 35-40 people and they just can't keep up. He was the 1st doctor to see patients after they had been admitted- in some cases they had been there 2 days- because the nursing staff was so overwhelmed that they just couldn't keep up with the patients. And he said the get paid something appalling, like 3 pounds an hour. In Australia- I have been very impressed with the quality of care and the low cost. I do not qualify for Medicare since I do not have permanent residency, but a year ago I was in a horse riding accident and shattered my arm. I was taken to Gosford Hospital, a public hospital. I was treated as a private patient (since I don't have medicare) but I was very impressed with the standard of care. It was a long weekend and only one operating theatre was open but I only had to wait 4 hours (from the time I was brought to the hospital) for my 1st surgery, and was able to have the second surgery the next day. I had a third surgery at St Luke's Hospital in Sydney and really, at both I had excellent care. The nurses were so good and the surgeons were world-class. And even though I had to pay for it all (I was reimbursed by my US-based private health care) - my total costs so far (Including physical therapy 2x/week for 12 weeks) were only A$13k. I couldn't even imagine how much it would have been in the US... for example my anesthetist (sp?) bill was only A$550 - in the US it would have been at least US$5000. I really think the public/private system in this country works so well- to keep costs down throughout the system and to keep the level of care world-class.

10-07-2003, 11:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tollee Proud Aussie Mummy! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,181 My Mood: Points: 5,393.02 Bank: 0.02 Total Points: 5,393.04 Donate	I'm with you on Mez... I think Medicare is great. And I don't have private cover, and won't get it unless it becomes complusory. I just can't make sense of it. I sat down and did the sums a couple of times and the extra 1% levy (if a couple earns over 100K or single over 50K) isn't as much as what you would pay for the private cover. And even with the "no gap" system in place, it seems you always end up paying extra when ever you use the health system. The only draw back I have come accross in not having Priv Cover, was when I had my lap surgery - I had to wait for 4 months through the public system (which I didn't find to be THAT long a wait really). If I had Priv cover, I would have only had to wait maybe one month, but I would have also been out of pocket some (I can't remember the exact numbers now - but my girlfriend had her lap private, and I know she was still out of pocket in the end) I have had great care through my pregnancy using the public system. And I haven't been out of pocket once. If there is a problem., they send you straight to see the dr or squeeze you in for an ultrasound... The quality of care I've experienced has been very high. On the other side of the story - I can understand why alot of Dr's are no longer bulk billing for private consultations and common procedures, and tests. Now even though each year the medicare fees paid to drs are changed (generally they are increased) for some of the most common tests and procedures the fee has been steadily dropping over the last few years. And any increases that are given are generally quite low. I haven't read much about the higher income earners and their access to medicare in the future either. So can't comment there...

03-31-2008, 01:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
faeryvixen83 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: bay area,ca Posts: 15 My Mood: Points: 813.96 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 813.96 Donate	you guys in australia are lucky...here in the states, i believe 40 plus million i believe are uninsured..and the number keeps on growing...its really sad that these huge billion dollar insurance companies can't be reasonable...frankly its very very disgusting