How does it all work?

Viviana V · 02-21-2003, 04:11 AM

Hi ladies,
I tried to access the sticky on alternative remedies above but I'm having trouble with it. I've been reading within this forum for the past couple of days. I'm currently on the bcp and would like to able to ovulate on my own. I'm not ttc really but would still like to ovulate and menstrurate without the pill.

Vitex, Dong quai, NPC, bee pollen, and Saw Palmetto. What do each of the herbs concentrate on and what order are they used to help with ovulating? I'm sure there are others used but I see these mentioned frequently.

I just recently was diagnosed with pcos. I am overweight 5'5" and 215lbs. I'm not IR and the only hormone that came back abnormal was my testosterone at 118. I also have high blood pressure and borderline high cholesterol. I do not have excess hair growth my my hair is falling out on head

If any of you ladies could shed some light and maybe help me on how to go about helping myself I'd really appreciate it.

As always thanks ladies
~Viv~

Sheri · 02-21-2003, 03:07 PM

Saw Palmetto is an herb which is reputed to bind to testosterone so that if you have excess testosterone the Saw Palmetto renders some of it unusable (or it may link up with the testosterone receptors so the excess testosterone can not be used in that way)
Vitex is a hormone balancer. It works on the pituitary gland to balance hormones in whatever direction they need- low ones rise and high ones lower. It is a cumulative herb and can take many months to work. It needs to be taken regularily to be able to accumulate. Most women take less than 1500mg per day- some right around that, some less so if the package recommends more I would say stick to under the 1500mg. It can be used throughout the cycle although some like to take a break from all herbs during AF. I take it throughout.
Dong quai CAN NOT BE TAKEN DURING AF as it is a blood thinner and can increase bleeding. It is a hormone balancer as well as a reproductive tonic. I have seen it recommended to take throughout the cycle OR pre o OR post O, so this is a decision you will have to make. I take it throughout while I am annovulatory and then after I started ovulating I take it post O. Some women have concerns about using it post O because it could affect a developing fetus. I have done much reading and research and don't personally consider this a problem as long as all herbs are discontinued upon confirmation of pregnancy.
I have not had good results when I used vitex and NPC together. I personally feel it may be contradictory because I am taking vitex and dong quai to balance my hormones from within and then I am adding an external source of progesterone. My body reacted with longer cycles and I stopped using those together after a few cycles. Others may have had better results with that combination.
There are many women though who have had good results with using NPC to regulate their cycles. A good book for more info on this is called What Your Dr. May Not Tell You About Menopause by Dr. John Lee. He also has one called the same as above except Premenopause.

Some books to learn more about these and other herbs for women are...
Herbal Healing for women by Rosemary Gladstar
Herbal Remedies for women by Amanda McQuade Crawford
The Complete women's Herbal by Anne McIntyre
Overcoming Infertility Naturally by Karen Bradstreet
Infertilty Solutions by Shana Albo
I know you said you are not specifically ttc but these books offer good info anyways to better your cycles. Another book which is very helpful to learn whether you are ovulating or not is Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler
I just wanted to mention too that I have a success story with these herbs. I have a beautiful 7 year old which I would not have had without these and other vitamins and herbs I took.

Best to you in your health quest,

Sheri

Viviana V · 02-22-2003, 04:32 AM

Sheri,
Thank you for taking the time to post all that info for me. Your reply has helped alot in my search. I'm so new to herbal remedies and have a few more questions.

If Vitex balances the hormones where they are needed do I need to take the saw palmetto also? Or since I only have high testosterone could I go with Saw palmetto only? Seems like I could take one or the other but I'm so new to this and need as much guidance as I can get.

My main fear is that once I get off the bcp that I will be back at square one. My DH and I discussed it when I told him I wanted to lose weight before ttc. But he wants me to stay on the pill to stay regular. I'd love to have an alternative to the pill.

Thanks again Sheri, and if anyone else has any comments for a newbie it'd be much appreciated.
~Viv~

Aisha · 02-22-2003, 10:31 AM

I hope I'm not getting to personal, but what herbs were you taking when you conceived your DD?

Sheri · 02-22-2003, 03:17 PM

I think that it is possible that the BCP is keeping your other hormones in check and so I do suspect that you may need to use both vitex and saw palmetto. If you were going to stay on the pill and continued to have high testosterone then I would recommend the saw palmetto alone (with your drs supervision of course) Often PCOS women when they go off the pill become irregular and that is what the vitex will help with. If you start using it as soon as you go off the pill the chances are better that the cycles won't have as much time to get wacky. Often with herbal medicine (as with conventional) each one serves a different purpose. From my understanding Vitex works at a deeper level on your pituitary gland whereas the saw palmetto is working with the hormones after they already exist to deal with the excess.
I know we all want to take as little as possible (one small pill would be best!!) but with herbs it is usually a big commitment and you learn quickly how to swallow a handful of pills.
When I conceived my daughter I was taking

Vitex 120mg per day (this is a very small dose compared to what is taken now. I can no longer find the nature's way 40mg capsules which I used to take. I take MUCH higher dose now) I took the vitex throughout my whole cycle
Wild Yam I took Nature's way brand and used the amount it recommended for acute situations (about 2500mg per day) I used it throughout the whole cycle. I don't take as high of a dose anymore. I have also since then heard that it can delay ovulation if taken pre o but I did not experience that when I used it.
Dong quai I used this just from o (or day 14) until menstruation. It can not be used during bleeding because it is a blood thinner. I used a dose of 1500mg per day
Siberian Ginseng- not sure of the dose- Nature's way brand dosage. This is for adrenal stress which is a problem that PCOS women have. I took this throughout my cycle
vitamin E I used 400iu per day throughout my cycle
Kelp 1 tablet per day throughout my cycle
Evening Primrose oil 1500mg per day
and a multivitamin

I have recently started using the herbs again after a break and take much the same but now use 800mg per day of vitex and have added Saw Palmetto because I am doing laser hair removal and want to try to get the testosterone under better control. As well I am taking B6 and Milk Thistle and Hawthorn & Fish OIl for my heart.

Sheri