wombat woman

Thankyou for your opinion ellie anna.

I am not about to dance around the topic of cheating, with "oh you poor thing I can understand why you're going to stray" I'm standing up for his wife who deserves better than F*&^ buddy searching behind her back, that does not deserve sympathy. It's black and it's white and there is no justifying it.

Funny but you just said almost the exact same things in your post as I did in mine ellie, if my post stays in his head and causes him to think twice about making a big mistake because it sounds "harsh" and "cold" then I say good, job done.

I've explained the rest, I am sorry he is having a bad time, I understand his frustrations and I'm sorry I didn't get the whole picture the first time. The aspect I'm pissed about is the cheating side, nuff said.

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ohfirefighter

I have been reading this thread for about an hour now trying to figure out how to respond.

I will tell you that my wife has PCOS and yes has a diminished sex drive, and has posted how I still love her very much. You need to stop torturing your self with this “I don’t get any sex anymore!” I understand that people deal with things in different ways but you need to show your wife that you are supportive and her “curse.” Having sex is not the end of the world. When we first got married it was anytime, anywhere, anyplace, but as time went on after the birth of our daughter it seem to go down hill. Yes there were many times I thought to my self if she still loved and made me second guessing my decision to relocate, get married and have a child with her, but I realize no matter what I was in this for life and I was going to make the best of it.

I cannot express how much I love my wife and how we now know how to approach her “curse.” Sex is infrequent but when it does occur she enjoys it and I rather see her face gleaming for the sensation she just had than me just getting off.

As for dealing with it, I tend to play video games; I work 2 jobs, volunteer at my local fire department and having a healthy porn collection works well too. (Sorry Hunny Sometime you just need to give her a break and take the bull by the horns per say.

You keep mentioning about cheating and it sound like you have made up your mind about it and are planning to go through with it and in that case, I cannot help you. I understand you frustration and believe me I feel your pain. Everyone is telling you to hang in there and I will tell you the same thing but you need to approach this as a team. Speak to her let her know that you care about her and be a bit more understanding.

joyblack

There's not a simple answer to the problem, as far as I can see.

As you rightly point out it has changed your life. It's changed her physically and it's changed her mentally. Her hormone balance has shifted because of the influence of increased testosterone levels which as well as having the effect of producing male-type hair growth has probably caused her to lose some of her female mental characteristics as well. If it's confusing for you, it's undoubtedly more confusing for her. It's a bit like having gone through puberty as a girl, then having to go through puberty again, but this time with the sort of hormonal influences of a boy. Her body is fighting against itself and she's fighting against the whole world and you're the first person in the firing line.

You married a woman with a particular set of characteristics, but some of these have changed. It's great that you love her -- but you married her for better or for worse. Don't try to will her back to what she was before -- because it's probably not going to happen. And cheating on her certainly isn't the answer. Try to find what will make her happy now -- as she is now. She can't help the fact that she's changed. She can't help the fact that she's masculinized in a way she wasn't before. You didn't dream it would ever happen -- and neither did she. She doesn't want to be that way. The defeminization is the worst bit of all this, but it's a reality. But all the same, she probably needs you more than before, but in a different way from the way she did before. You may not be able to have the same sort of relationship you had with her before, but it can still be a good relationship -- for both of you.

Don't give up on her -- she's your wife and she needs you, even if she can't express that need right now. If you're confused by it all, you can be sure that she's even more confused. Don't push the sex issue too hard -- remember that though your hormones haven't changed, hers have -- drastically. Hopefully things will stabilize and you'll find it possible to have a meaningful relationship with each other in the future. In the meantime, the most helpful thing for you to do is to provide the stability in your relationship that she just can't provide at the moment.

flubby

Thanks for that neechogan. Lots of people are reading your thread trying to support you and yet you want to cause them pain suffering and uncertainty.
:/


Some things to consider:

Having PCOS can make you feel hideously unattractive and masculine. You may still have a sex drive but feel so repulsive you cannot bear to have sex with your partner because you believe he cannot truly be turned on by you.

There is also a massive difference between sex for intimacy and sex for physical release. I know you say you want sex for the intimacy but the more you bang on about it the more she is going to think it is just for physical release which will make her feel even worse and less likely to want to risk sleeping with you.

If you have said ANYTHING to your wife about her being unattractive or you wanting to sleep with other people this will be magnified in her mind and make it very difficult for her to relax with you physically.

I'm not sure I could cope if my boyfriend kept calling PCOS my "curse" either, I'm not sure if you use that language with your partner but it seems very grim and depressing! She might say it, but for you to call her cursed will only reinforce any ideas she might have that deep inside you don't like her anymore.

Have you told her about this site?

adnjw

Neechogan,
I've been trying to follow your posts and just be an observer since you seem to really want an man's point of view. But I feel that I would like to tell you what i have gone through that maybe will help you in your relationship.
My DH and i have been together now 8 years; of that we have lived together 7 of those 8 and been married 2 1/2 of those 8 years. For the first 7 years of our relationship I never understood why our sex life seems to diminish. We did it like rabbits in the beginning and then as time went on it was on I think we were luck to do it once twice a month. It was blamed on busy schedules, being tired, etc. But in my mind i didn't feel attractive, so it was hard for me to think that he liked correct that loved me and making love to me. My weight also fluxuated, I would go up, and down and nothing ever seemed to stick. I lost 60 pounds before we got married and felt great and our sex life was back. Once we were married though I went off of BCP (Birth Control Pills) and my weight balloned and I was not getting a cycle at all. So I saw my Dr and they gave me provera which helped induce my cycle but it still wouldn't ome on its own. And i was getting frustrated and miserable because here I had worked so hard to loose weight and I was back where I started feeling unattractive and miserable and not understanding why we couldn't get PG (Pregnant and how could this man want me when I was fat and ugly in my own mind).
Finally in January of this year my regular OBGYN sent me to a RE (reproductive Endocrynologist) to see if he could help and to see if I had PCOS. I myself was wondering what the heck is that and what happens in I have it. But i went and saw him and sure enough I was diagnosed after we had been TTC (trying to concieve) for almost 2 years with no success. Being diagnosed for me was like a lightbulb going off in my head but then the light being turned off again. It gave me an answer to what was happening to my body. Finally there was an explaination for why i had always struggled with weight, my acne, why my cycle was irregular in high school but everything had evened out while I had been on BCP for 8 years. Why for the past 2 years my weight had been climbing when I thought i was doing all the right things. But like i said just as the lightbulb went on I felt like it went off because no one seemed to understand what i had always struggled with, and now what, would the change in diet help when all the others hadn't, would the glucafage work? There were a lot of questions and a lot of fear of what if we can't have a child because of this?
So for three months I was miserable and fighting deppression and just was not good to be around. And with talking to a friend something clicked, why i am I telling her to see a therapist when I am not doing it myself. So I called our guidance resources at work and talked to them. They gave me names and numbers of DR's in my area. I can tell you that in the last 8 months I have become such a better person. I have learned to cope better, and dealt with a lot of grief and loose issues i didn't releize i had had. Because in our 2 years of marriage, I lost both my mom's dad and my mom's mom, and being diagnosed with PCOS gave me a sense of lose of family, due to the possibly not being able to have one. Talking to my Dr. helped not only me but has also improved my relationship with my husband. I can talk to him and explain hey you just can't jump my bones, i need more foreplay, otherwise i don't enjoy it. And we have learned to communicate more. He even sometimes joins me at my sessions and that helps to because it is a nuteral place for him to talk and me not judge and maybe see what i am doing to push him away without realizing it. And we are so much closer and fight so much less often now.
We made it a point to go out on dates a gain just us so we would have time to ourselves. We recently went on a trip to Vermont to see my girlfriend who just had a baby boy in march (and yes it was extermely difficult for me to be at her baby shower and my DH was wonderful byt staying by my side and making sure I was ok and just being there to let me cry if need be) and we had the best trip we have ever had. We didn't fight the entire time and just truly enjoyed each others company. That was a miracle in itself. Because on road trips we usually are at each others throats and this time even though we took a couple wrong turns we still enjoyed ourselves and laughed it off because the little stuff finally didn't bother us.
Now I stopped taking my glucafage after 3 months because of my side effects to, but my moods were better and my cycle was beginning on its own because of the diet and excersie. I was on a more of a diabetic diet, whole grains, low sugar. It helped, and I know its hard to hear but my DH and i are expecting our first child and I am now 12 weeks.
I think your wife really needs to work with her Dr's to help herself. I know its hard to see her go through this but she also has to want help. And if she doesn't, then i am not sure what to tell you to do. I do agree cheating or thinking about it is not the answer, exhaust all avenues of help before you go down the route of divorce. If she gets the help she needs then I trully believe your marriage will begin to turn around. But she wants to want it too. I also agree with another cyster, that you should seek some help for yourself as well. As you said its good to talk and let things out and to a thrid party that has no bias on your sistuation may help you see things from a different side. Perseption is a voital thing that can be like rose colored glasses or a shattered mirror. Don't let yours distort from the truth of the matter.
I hope my journey helps you and i will suggest to my husband that he log on here and let you know his side of our story, as we all know there are 2 sides to every story and then the true and middle ground of it.
As hard as it is keep the faith that it will work out.

adnjw

Sorry about the spelling errors and my long post. Has she been to this site? I only joined about a month ago when I was looking for other women who have PCOS and are PG. And with joining the message boards and talking to people in the Chat room it has helped me out tremendously. Neechogan - keep the faith you will make it through this with her and you will only be stronger because of it.
Couple of questions:
Does she know about this site?
Does she know she has many resources to help her and you understand and cope with PCOS?
Is she seeing a RE (reproductive Endocrynologist, its a specialist in reproductive problems such as PCOS and other fertility issues)?
Is she open to therapy? and have you tried it alone and together?
And may I ask how old are the two of you because i know as you get older you feel time is running out to have children?
If my questions are to personal I understand just trying to get a better handle on your situation, to possibly be able to offer more help. Again i will try and get my husband to read your thread and post.

Again keep the faith and I hope your journey begins to improve.

Neechogan

I first came to this site because it was recommended to me by someone in another discussion room and I was told that it had a discussion board with a thread for men looking for support. Instead of getting support, I am getting judged by people who have absolutely no idea of what I am going through.

People think that that I am blowing this thing way out of proportion but for my wife and I this is a real issue brought on by PCOS. Trust me, I have done the research. I know that no two women are affected the same. Some people are doubting that PCOS has had such a huge impact on the physical part of our relationship - it has.

Contrary to what many people may believe, there are no relationship issues that may have created this situation. We communicate quite regularly and we are very open about our feelings and desires. We went to a marriage counsellor for a couple of sessions but we were told that we didn't need her services. The level of communication hasn't changed and we are always working together to sort out problems and issues.

Her doctor has attributed her complete lack of desire to her messed up hormone balance created by this disorder.

I am very aware of how this is affecting her, physically and emotionally. Trust me, I am doing everything I can think of to be supportive and sensitive to her needs. So much so, I have started to feel like the forgotten one.

What do you do when everything in your relationship is working except for the intimacy and you realize, after trying everything, that nothing is going to bring it back. I never said that we don't have sex because we do. Well - sort of. My wife doesn't participate - she just lays there and doesn't touch me.

I've read books and watched "how to" videos looking for suggestions to get some advice to rekindle her interest only to find out that there's nothing I can do to make things better. I have literally spents thousands of dollars on books, videos, toys, flowers, romantic dinners, and counselling but in the end I end up feeling humiliated and embarrassed because I realized that all of my efforts are for not. There's nothing I can do because PCOS has robbed her of her desire.

I have backed off the whole issue with her and while it may seem from my posts that I am constantly pushing the subject at home, nothing can be further from the truth. I have taken off the pressure and by the way glent, I have a porn collection that some collectors would be very envious of. But guess what. My wife is offended by the fact that I view pornography and use it for the purpose of "self love." So what do you do if you're in my shoes?

Not being able to satisfy my wife and give her the pleasure she once enjoyed makes feel like I'm not much of a man. Its my job to make her happy and I can't do that anymore.

What people need to understand is that, when I post here, I am ranting and yelling out loud. Yes I am frustrated. But I am also lonely. But to those of you out there who may hate me right now - no I have never cheated on my wife. I never have and never will. Sometimes' when I am feeling weak, I need to speak my mind and get it off my chest. She has given me permission and yes, sometimes it enters my mind but I could never go through with it. I am only human after all.

There has to be someone out there in this big world of ours who knows exactly what I am dealing with and can give me some advice on how to cope. Instead of getting support, I am getting critism. People have been very cold and vicious. I can't help but feel like I'm getting beat up whenever I come here.

Maybe I shouldn't come here anymore.

flubby

Everyone in this thread is going out of their way to support you, you have had many detailed replies with very personal information.

I think if you feel you have the right to vent, you should remember that everyone on this board is effected by PCOS and if you vent something that may upset someone just maybe they will vent back.

I for one did not appreciate you saying that the men who use this board are cheating on thier wives, I thought that was cruel, especially as you are well aware of the problems women with PCOS face.

However I do wish you well and hope you and your wife can sort out what ever problems you are having, and all my responses have be given to you with the best intentions and without a wish to cause you any harm or pain.

Neechogan

Couple of questions:
Does she know about this site?
Does she know she has many resources to help her and you understand and cope with PCOS?
Is she seeing a RE (reproductive Endocrynologist, its a specialist in reproductive problems such as PCOS and other fertility issues)?
Is she open to therapy? and have you tried it alone and together?
And may I ask how old are the two of you because i know as you get older you feel time is running out to have children? [/quote]

Just to answer some questions:

1. My wife doesn't know about this site.
2. She isn't seeing an RE and her OB/GYN hasn't been much help
3. We've tried marriage counselling and were told we didn't need it.
4. She is 28 and I'm 35.

While I appreciate what people have said, 99% of the advice I have received has been from women. I need to hear from a husband or boyfriend who is going through something similar to what I am dealing with. Why aren't they coming out? I am slowly dying inside, trying to cope with the fact that my wife doesn't desire me anymore because of a medical issue. I could deal with an affair and I could deal with the lack of desire if was because of something I did. Those things I could fix. This I have no control of.

There's nothing I can do but cry myself to sleep because the most important person in my life doesn't desire me anymore and there's nothing I can do about it. Why is everybody assuming that we have a relationship problem? We've seen a marriage counsellor and we've been told that we don't need to.

I said what I said about the men giving up on their partners because I don't see the other husbands and boyfriends coming out and talking about what they feel and how they are coping or not coping. I have struggled with this for a long time and I'm starting to run out of ideas. I don't know what to do anymore.

There are 37,795 members of this discussion board. How many of them are men? Am I being weak for expressing my pain publicly?

How many men out there would trade their souls to the devil to have just one day where their partners would touch them without feeling obligated. To no longer have to have "mercy sex." I would. I would gladly give up my life just to experience one day where I didn't have to beg for a simple kiss or innocent emrace. Because you see, its more than just sex, there's no intimacy whatsoever and we've been told by the doctors that its not a relationship issue, its a medical issue. My wife loves me, she tells me that everyday. She just has no desire to translate that into physical intimacy.

I've looked everywhere for somewhere where I can talk to other men about this disorder. I know there are others out there and I know that some of them are dealing with the exact same issues.

My wife and I have been together for 10 years but I feel alone. I can't help but feel that way. Is there anybody out there who knows how that feels?

I call PCOS a curse because I feel as though God has forsaken us. I feel as though my wife and I have done something wrong to be robbed of the intimacy we used to share. Sometimes I feel like praying for forgiveness and to ask for my wife back but I don't know what I did wrong.

I don't know how to cope anymore. What do you do when you've tried everything you can think of but nothing's worked.

I'm starting to lose hope.

wombat woman

I don't know how to cope anymore. What do you do when you've tried everything you can think of but nothing's worked.

1. My wife doesn't know about this site. Show it to her, buy her books about PCOS, she needs support and understanding from people who know what she's going through, people who "get it"
2. She isn't seeing an RE and her OB/GYN hasn't been much help Ask her to see an RE, their specialty is hormones, including those that cause lack of desire.
3. We've tried marriage counselling and were told we didn't need it. Try again with another counsellor, and another and another if need be. If the relationship is fine apart from the sex/intamacy issues, try a sex counsellor who specializes in this area.

Again I will say to investigate the possibility of depression, this can be treated too, but bear in mind that having depression may in itself be the reason why she is not seeking help.

As for some of your other comments I'm just going to I do want things to be peachy for you and DW, I posted a gift for you in truce last week.

You've been given some great advice and good starting points, your wife would be very welcome here at SC, there is help for the two of you.

I don't think I'm presuming too much in thinking that the hubbys and boyfriends would offer the same advice. I don't know how blokes operate, maybe you need a few pats on the back and an "I hear ya dude" now and again Sorry if I'm way off base.

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flubby

I think the women here want to try and explain what your wife might not be able to communicate with you. I commented in particular because someone insinuated that your wife didn't care for you and I thought that was a dangerous and hurtful thing to have you think.


You definately do need a lot of male responses and I hope you get them. Us women can only give you 50%
You said they were cheating, in fact you made a point about it twice. I understand you are at the end of your tether but don't deliberately hurt the women here.

God no! I really hope you get what you need here. No one on this board is going to be able to fix your wife overnight though.

Does she let you hold her hand, or brush your hand against hers? Are you able to have any kind of physical contact, like giving her shoulders a rub. Perhaps she is worried all intimacy will lead to sex.

Maybe your wife feels bad about herself because you see her PCOS as something sent to punish you.



There are points in your life where a lack of intimacy can make you feel quite insane.

Send your wife here. First priority. Really.
This place is fantastic.
All the best to you both.

diagknowsis

Thank you for the male perspective. My husband wants "me" back also. The old me. I told him I want "me" back also, but I want a new me. I can never be the old me because I have suffered too much with this. He helps a lot by telling me I'm beautiful even though I feel like crap. He lets me know he is here for me if I need help rather than force the issue. You are right about PCOS. It robs a lot of women of their self esteem, their looks, their femininity, their entire sexual image of themselves. It's no wonder your wife sounds so depressed. Depression is another nasty symptom of PCOS. There is help out there though. I will take whatever medicine I have to in order to enjoy these younger years (30s). Life is too short to be miserable. Let your wife know about this site and that she is not alone in this struggle. I hope this helps.
Oh, I was just diagnosed a year ago. It was a month before I found out I was pregnant. The only thing I did differently was take Evening primrose oil for a month to help with PMS symptoms. I was very surprised to find out I was pregnant because I had my first daughter 8 years ago and I thought I just couldn't have anymore kids. Surprise surprise, life is full of surprises.

am0rcita

If you're not getting your needs met, I think it is reasonable to consider divorce.

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Neechogan

I just wanted to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for my behavior. What PCOS has done to my wife is killing me inside and what her symptoms has done to our relationship not only has frustrated me, it has made me mad as hell. I miss the closeness we use to have and like I said before I don't know if I can't handle it anymore.

"wombat woman," "flubby," and "joyblack," you have all given me tid-bits of insight that I've never considered before and has given me a different perspective on things. Its just not fair. My wife has so completely changed, she is no longer the passionate, joyful person she used to be. In fact she is completely the opposite of what she used to be. She's become very cold and I'm having trouble dealing with that. So considering what everyone has said, I'm starting to think that maybe she feels so bad about herself that she probably thinks that I'm not as attracted to her and turned on by her as I am. I am always reasurring her of that but I'm starting to think that she doesn't believe me.

I get the impression that people think that I'm whining about not getting sex. Sure, in one of my last posts I did indicate that its been 3 weeks and counting. My issues don't involve not getting sex. My wife doesn't participate. We had a really good, open discussion once where she finally came out after 7 years of struggling with this issue and said that she just doesn't get aroused anymore. This has certainly explained why she doesn't hold my hand anymore, pushes me away in disgust whenever I kiss her, tells me no when I want to cuddle. When we do have intercourse, I get this felling that she doesn't want to be there and when I ask her if she wants to stop, she shrugs her shoulders and says "I don't know." I don't think I'm satisfying her anymore and most of the time it feels like I'm raping her. I feel that the only reason that engages in this activity is out of a sense of duty or obligation.

If I didn't intiate sex, it wouldn't happen at all.


But she says she loves me and that confuses me. Someone suggested that my wife doesn't care about me and me my needs and a day doesn't go by when I wonder if this isn't indeed the case.

Is there anyone out there who is experiencing this? I realize that its a really personal question, but do any of you cysters out there go through this? Does anyone out there reached the point where they have stopped participating in sex because you have no desire to be involved but do so because you don't want to hurt huuby's feelings?

What about you hubbies? Is there anyone among you who are experiencing this same thing and is comfortable with talking about it? What are you doing to cope? What do you do if your wife doesn't approve of you having a porn collection and taking matters into your own hands?

How do you cope with the mood swings?

Do you guys find yourselves crying yourselves to sleep at night? Sometimes I feel weak and childish for crying.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all of the advice you cysters have given me and what I think might be appropriate for our situation, I will try. But you're right flubby, I do need a man's point of view on this. By not hearing from other men, I can't help but feel alone.

wombat woman

Thankyou for the apology Neechogan, I too am sorry.

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