Injectibles?

Sam2003 · 10-21-2003, 03:56 PM

I'm about to start my first cycle of injectibles. Anyone else about to or have tried them? Would be grateful to hear of anybody's experiences.

Sam

Lynn Parker · 10-23-2003, 04:34 PM

Hi Sam

Sorry I cant help with your injectable questions, Ive not got that far yet but Im sure there is a thread on the Trying to Concieve board where they are doing injectables for the first time.

Also Check out this web site I know there are lots of ladies jabbing at the moment, and lots that have done injectables

www.May-B-Baby.co.uk

Lynn x

radar5 · 10-25-2003, 10:30 AM

Hi Sam, i sometimes post on the Trying to conceive board, didn't even realise this one was here, was just browsing i suppose.

Anyhow, i've done 3 rounds of injections and have just started my 4th, when are you due to start??

If you have any questions or want to know any information, i know a fair bit about what goes on.

Hope to hear from you soon

Rachx

LULU · 10-25-2003, 12:12 PM

SAM, the one thing I would say to you that the protocol on the NHS for injectibles is very different to what happens in the US. They are very cautious here and do not like to see more than two mature follicles per cycle. Lots of American cysters will trigger with way more than that so it can be misleading when you read their accounts. You will start probably on a low dose (75iu or 1amp) per day. Depending on the meds, it can be subcutaneous or intra-muscular. Thankfully on Gonal-f, I always did mine sub-q and with an injection pen (made by Serono who also make the Gonal-f).

Do you know what meds you are going to be using? Your hospital should give you a lesson in how to inject yourself and explicit instructions in how to mix the meds. You will go in for U/Ss regularly from CD3 to check follie growth. Once a follie reaches a certain size (18mm at my hospital but depends on your consultant), you will be given a HCG trigger injection which forces all your mature follicles to ovulate. This injection is a source of much grief as although the inj meds themselves really have little side-effects, the HCG trigger mimics PG symptoms right from the start of your 2WW!

If you have any questions or need help, pm me or post on the TTC board as although there are differences in protocol re follie numbers, the rest is pretty similar. There are usually quite a lot of women doing injections at any one time. Good luck and don't be scared of the injections! Once you get used to it, it is a piece of cake honest! I have just finished my 5th cycle of injections and I could do it in my sleep now. I am on a rest cycle just now after an HSG but I will be starting again in a few weeks.

Good luck!!

Sam2003 · 10-26-2003, 04:38 PM

Thanks for your responses. I have been reading the messages on the ttc board but did wonder how different it would be in the UK so am really pleased to be able to chat about it from other people from the UK. I am paying privately (not available on my NHS - are you both NHS?). I am kind of glad to hear that they are usually more cautious here in the UK (not found that to be the case with any of my other treatment to date) but then again if that means reducing the chance of me getting pregnant then I am not so sure.

I am not doing IUI (is that the same for you?). I am currently on day 5 of down regulating with Suprecur (did you do this?) and am going to be stimulating with Puregon. I am not having too many problems with the injections at the moment other than getting rid of the air bubbles.

How many cycles are you going to do? My consultant mentioned 3 then moving on but 3 doesn't sound very many to me. What do you think?

Sam

radar5 · 10-27-2003, 02:23 PM

Hello again Sam, your'e right it is nice to speak to people from the uk about this. i've been following some of the cysters on the trying to conceive board and a majority of them are from the US, and it does seem to be a different protocol, like lulu said they are very cautious over here. I managed 3 follicles on one cycle but consultant wouldn't let me continue, because of a risk of multiples.

Yes i am having the injections on the nhs and doing it the old fashioned way, i think they only do iui if dh or dp has sperm probs.

I'm not doing the suprecur, what's that for ? i usually start the inj anywhere from cd3 to cd7 after baseline scan then just continue with them starting on 1 amp then upping the dose if needed until one or two follies get to around 18mm then take Hcg shot to release. i actually ovulated last cycle which was so great considering its the first time ever!! it sounds so silly really but means alot to us cysters.

I've done 3 cycles, currently on 4th, haven't actually checked with the hospital as to how many cycles they will do. i don't know if i'd want to know now that i am the 4th. I think they may do only 3 cycles like yours but i have only had the one which resulted in ovulation, i think the first cycle was really working out how my body responds to the medication. it's so easy to over stimulate.

hope this answers some of your questions!
which part of the uk are you from? if you don't mind me asking and which hospital are you going to?.

Hope to hear from you soon

Rach

LULU · 10-27-2003, 03:35 PM

Sam, I am having NHS treatment. Of my 5 cycles on injs, 2 were cancelled due to lack of response. Those 3 successful (as in ovulation) cycles were all with timed intercourse. I had previously done 6 cycles of Clomid and only ovulated 3 times.

It sounds like you are following IVF protocol. I am not sure what the Suprecur is for. Is it like Lupron which is used to shut down your hormones so you don't overstimulate?

Since my HSG last week when they found one tube was blocked, I am on a rest cycle and I will do 3 further injs/IUI cycles before moving onto IVF.

I am already on the waiting list for free IVF treatment (2 years here) but my 2 years is up in the summer of 2004. I know I am lucky to live in an area where free treatment is available.

Keep us posted how you are getting on! When is your next follie check? Any questions, just ask!

Sam2003 · 10-27-2003, 04:09 PM

Thanks both of you for getting back. It was a bit gloomy reading hearing about your wasted cycles. Something I think I needed to hear, I have just been assuming I will ovulate. I will be absolutely gutted if I don't O, the meds alone are costing us £700. Yes I am following IVF protocol, the Suprecur is I think like Lupron used to shut down your ovaries. (My consultant didn't really explain this very well, just said it was something new he was introducing as too many of his PCOS patients were overstimming. Bearing in mind the Suprecur has doubled the cost of the meds I hope it really is necessary!) I am on day 6 at the moment, the first injection was painless but I seem to be feeling them a bit more everyday for some reason. Maybe I am just a wimp! But I am not having any side effects yet luckily. Just have to wait until AF starts then I go for a scan on day 2. Don't yet know what dosage of the Puregon I will be taking.

Rach - I cannot believe they made you cancel with 3 follies. Was this the same for you Lulu? I just hope they don't apply the same rule to me. I do occasionally ovulate by myself since I had my son 18 months ago but after the birth I had to have an emergency d&c due to retained placenta. The d&c left me with scar tissue in my womb which I had removed in March. But all this has left me with a lining issue. So I am hoping the injectible meds are going to help with this, I know a lot of my problem getting pregnant is going to be due to my lining and so I would like to be able to get the go ahead with 3 follies.

Have you both found NHS treatment very slow, I mean moving on from say clomid to the injections. I found it incredible slow, waiting for appointments all the time.

Rach - where are you on your cycle?

Lulu - when do you start your next?

sam

LULU · 10-28-2003, 04:51 PM

Sam, more than two follicles at 15mm+ and my cycle would be cancelled. That has not happened to me though! The two cancelled ones were poor response to the meds. I don't respond the same way each cycle! My consultant jokes about my contrary ovaries but frankly, it's no joke for me!

I have heard about cysters in the US doing IVF protocol for PCOS patients and your consultant is wise to do that for you (if you readily over-stim). If this is your first cycle on injs, how does he know how you will react? At least it can't really do any harm! Its just more bruises and pain for you though! If you are being treated privately, I am not sure if your cycle would be so readily cancelled if you had loads of follies! Something to ask at your next visit.

I had a long wait from GP referral to starting Clomid with my consultant (about a year) but I think it depends on your age. I have now had a year of aggressive treatment with Clomid and Gonal-f injs. It moved quite quickly from each stage but again it is because I am ancient!

I am on CD13 and if I have not ovulated on my own(fat chance!) by about CD21, I will phone for Provera to be sent to me to bring on AF. So it will probably be 2-3 weeks.

Hope you are both ok!

Scotty · 10-28-2003, 08:12 PM

Ive been through the injectibles also for IVF (NHS funded) and was mixing and injecting with syringes/needles (didn't have pen at that point). I never noticed any side effects on injections, in fact I felt like my hormones were balanced, lost weight and felt really good on them!!! I was monitored very closely especially as the risk of hyperstimulation with PCOS seems to be higher (I think?!). Anyway, everything went great up till the second week of my 2ww and I hyperstimulated - but it was worth it all.

Just as a heads up, my symptoms were feeling like I had a bit of a cough/chest infection and finding it harder to breathe. Also feeling bloated and constipated - I was so convinced I took a laxative (stupid now I know!) which just made matters worse.

However, it is very rare to hyperstimulate and I'm sure you wont have any problems at all. Wishing you the very best of luck and I'm sure everything will go smoothly.

radar5 · 10-29-2003, 02:18 PM

Sam,

I agree with lulu, it seems the better way doing the ivf protocol if us pcos'ers overstim easily. Hope all goes well, the injections really aren't that bad, you do get used to it after a while although i still sit there for a few minutes before i have the guts to put the needle in, but i did used to be scared stiff of needles.

As for the Nhs, i had to wait about 6 months after the referal from GP to start clomid but apart from that they've been pretty quick really i suppose, i did the 2 months of clomid then had about a couple months off before starting the injections, and have been going non-stop, not even a break in between.

I'm on day 7 of injections at the moment but i'm only taking 1 amp, my consultant does the slow approach, i will then take 1&1/2 for another 7 days before moving on to 2 amps which is where i eventually start to respond and then back down to 1&1/2, its been like that every cycle, i seem to respond at the same point each time. I still don't understand though why he doesn't start me on the 2 amps then drop it down after follies are nearly ready. I do wonder sometimes if he actually knows what he's doing. Sorry to say that i think its because i'm so impatient and its all about waiting all the time.

Sorry it's all about me, but hope this has answered some of your questions.

Rach x

LULU · 10-29-2003, 03:16 PM

Rach, the reason the NHS protocols are so slow and careful is that there have been lawsuits (successful) after multiple births so they really try to restrict the chances of that happening. It seems stupid to me that someone would turn round and sue a hospital for making them have triplets when they were pusuing fertility treatment but that is just what has happened! I kinda think what the heck! let me have triplets in one go as it is such a hard journey lol!

LULU · 10-29-2003, 03:18 PM

Oh, and thanks Scotty for your input! Feel free to join our little UK group to moan about the NHS lol!

Sam2003 · 10-29-2003, 05:04 PM

Hi all,

I certainly have a lot to moan about the NHS. In a round about way they have managed to give me a poor lining but what do I get in return - CLOMID which didn't work and that is about all they could come up with for me. Still we've kind of accepted the fact that we have to pay and just hope we get a better service and that we are allowed to much the decisions when it comes to number of follies!!!

Lulu - I agree with what you say exactly. You cannot blame the hospital for being cautious when people turn round and sue when they get exactly what they what but more. It is hard though, when you've been ttc for a while I think you get so desparate that you are prepared to take too many risks. I mean I am not sure (already having an 18 month old) how well I could cope if I fell pregnant with twins or twiplets this cycle but given the chance I know I would take that chance.

Scotty - Did you conceive your little girl through IVF? Is this when you hyper stimmed? I ask because my consultant told me that everyone who conceives actually hyperstims to some extent so that in fact hyperstimming in your second week of the 2ww is actually a good sign. Did you have any treatment?

Rach - I can understand your frustration with the slow approach. Don't know how my consultant is going to take things yet but I know I will feel the same as you. I am sure he knows what he is doing though. How many scans are you having?

Sam

radar5 · 11-04-2003, 06:53 AM

Hi all, where is everybody then?

Lulu, thanks for the info on the nhs i didn't know why they had to be so cautious, does sound a bit silly that someone could sue if they ended up with triplets etc, i wouldn't mind twins or triplets though cos then we wouldn't have to go through this again aswell.

Sam how did ur scan go on monday, have you started the injections yet?
About the scans, i'm only going in twice a week cos thats the only times the clinic is open, but i've finished now for three weeks,yippee!!
I went in for my scan yesterday, i've been on one amp of menogon for 11 days, was not expecting too much would of changed since last Thursday cos i had several at about 10mm but i had one nice big follie @ 21mm, very shocked!! in all my cycles i did inj i never usually responded until they upped me to two amps, so that must be something good. So i'm now officially in the 2ww.
There was me moaning about the nhs cos they were so slow at upping etc and i didn't need to be, maybe they do know what they are doing.

Any way speak to u soon i hope

Rach