Less Androgenic BCP

fitness_chick · 08-21-2004, 04:36 PM

Hi,

After three months on Demulen, I am considering switching to a less androgenic bcp. It seems that Demulen helps at first, then stops working, but this time I am taking it with Metformin and not sure why, but have noticed some androgenic side effects becoming worse. Not a lot, but I don't like the progression it's taking. I also have bad fatigue. Other side effects that are bad for me are water retention/weight gain, and when not on the Pill, severe mood swings.

I am considering Yasmin and Diane-35. I know Yasmin has a high progesterone component, and wonder if that will bring back my depression/moodiness, or increase the fatigue? Does anyone know if the progesterone activity in Diane is lower than Yasmin (also, can we get this one in the USA?)

The only other type I have tried was years ago, Alesse, and that gave me acne.

thanks!
Amie

disintegration · 08-21-2004, 05:23 PM

I know that Diane is something that can't be get in the US, but can be bought online. I've seen alot of ladies here buy it online but I don't know where. I am on Yasmin now and its the only BCP I can tolerate. Usually other pills like Mircette make me depressed and an evil she beast. Also, they have a lot of side effects with me. Yasmin it seems only gives me painful breasts but its going away. It also has an antiangrogen effect. There is a sticky on top of the BCP forum that has a website that tells how much chemicals are in each pill. Good luck in your choice!

hopeless · 08-21-2004, 06:03 PM

Check out the website in my siggy. It lists of the types of hormones that have less androgenic effects. (then you can search each brand for thos types) I think Marvelon is one of them.

fitness_chick · 08-22-2004, 12:45 AM

I checked out the links in the sticky, but didn't see the Progesterone in Diane listed there. I guess it's a null point for me right now because I live in the USA, for now.

It said that people with adrenal problems need to watch out for Yasmin. I am going to my doctor on Weds and find out if that is the case, if not I might try it. I am just worried with more progesterone, I might get the depression and severe mood swings back like before I restarted the bcp.

Thanks for the link to the documentation in your siggy... I will look up some of these other bcp's!

thanks,
Amie

fitness_chick · 08-22-2004, 01:55 AM

Well I am looking at the bcp's and starting to get confused. I understand there are varying doses of estrogen level/progestational activity/androgenic activity.

I am definately looking at the bcp's which have less androgenic activity than Demulen (mainly Yasmin, Diane-35, Mircette, Marvelon, for now) but am unsure what direction (+ or -) to go with the estrogen and progestin dose.

When I am not on the pill, I have BAD pms, it's more like PMDD. Severe mood swings, depression, exhaustion, hunger, massive bloating/weight gain (along with menstrual irreg). With Demulen, it's improved, a lot, but I still deal with faigue daily, get EXHAUSTED before my period (can we say, hibernation) and bloat out (a size).

Also, my periods are still irregular. Demulen used to work ok for me but then after a while would stop working. Now after three months back on it (also taking Met 1500 mg this time), it's not working: the first month I had my period a week early and it lasted for 10 days, the next month on time for three days, the next month I spotted the week before but then nada.

According to the first link in the sticky, for my PMS symptoms, it *seems* like maybe I need a lower progesterone dose. But I've read elsewhere progesterone deficiency can lead to the same symptoms??? Anyway, this seems to be the comparison between the ones I am looking at:

Estrogen / Progestin Activity / Androgenic Activity

Demulen 35 1.4 .6 (on now)
Mircette 20 1.35 .51
Marvelon 30 1.35 .51
Yasmin 30 4.5 0
Alesse 20 .53 .84 (was on before, got bad acne)

Any help would be appreciated !

thanks,
Amie

fitness_chick · 08-22-2004, 02:01 AM

Actually now that i'm thinking about it, the menstrual irregularities could be caused not only by an imbalance in prog/est, but (maybe more probably) the excess androgens could be screwing that up, too.

Chrissy · 08-23-2004, 08:57 PM

Hi fitness chick. I can relate to your situation a bit. I too need a lower progestin pill. I get bad side effects with too much progestin. The Yasmin was hard on me and when I calculated the progestational strength in it I found out why. I have jumped around on many pills for the last 20 years. Ortho cyclen worked well for me for a long time until the estrogen seemed too high as of late. I have been taking the ortho tri cyclen lo for about 5 months and am pretty happy with it. It is lower in estrogen 25mcg. and the progestin is also low. I also took Alesse at one point and my acne and hair problems got steadily worse. It is higher in androgen. The tri cyclen lo is very low androgen. I also tried cyclessa but once again the progestin was too high on most weeks.

Good luck finding a pill. It is so individual and something I wish I didn't have to endure. I did take Avandia for awhile and had great luck with it regulating my cycles and improving my symptoms. It did cause a lot of water retention and my ankles and feet swelled horribly so I had to quite taking it. My insulin was only 10 but my sugar was normal and I am of normal weight so who would have thought an insulin med would straighten me out. Certainly not my Dr. Hope this helps.
Chris

fitness_chick · 08-23-2004, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the reply. How did you know the progestin was too high? Could you tell right away or did it take awhile?

I started metformin in March though my fasting insulin was a 4.6 and had normal blood sugar levels. My period is still non-existent and/or haywire, now I am getting more androgenic symptoms too with the Demulen. Almost makes me want to drop all medications, like why am I taking all this? Though i do think the Met helps control carb cravings.

I am normal weight but i workout like hell to keep it that way, but still it's a battle.

-Amie

Candace · 08-23-2004, 09:42 PM

and Met and my hormones are finally steadily under control. I don't have any water retention or bloating when off of Yasmin. My skin is super clear and my hormones seem fairly stable. (I am not the raving lunatic I was without them...thought I was going insane some of the time)...severe PMS. Anyway, Yasmin is the best pill that has come my way, except for the Glucophage XR. I have lost weight with Yasmin and have taken Demulen, Ortho Tri Cyclen and too many others to mention. I stayed on Demulen for many years until the migraines became unbearable. Now, the only time I have headaches is when I am on my off week of the pill. We all have different issues but It took at least three months for my hormones to level out with Yasmin. I had tender breasts and was "starving" which was very odd considering I normally have very little appetite. I hope you find the pill that works for you! Good Luck!

Candace

Chrissy · 08-24-2004, 11:20 AM

I use a formula I got off the internet to figure progestational strength. In order to compare progestins you take its mg. strength times its activity level to get a comparable strength. Example: Desogesterel is dosed at .15mg in orthocept and its potency is 9.0 so when figuring its ptency compared to a baseline such as norethindrone it would be .15X9.0=1.35 times. For androgenicity it would be .15X3.4=.51 or half as androgenic as a pill containing 1mg. of norethindrone.

You can figure this for any pill as long as you know the dose of progestin and the activity levels of each as far as progestin and androgen activity.

There is an extremely helpful website on family practice notebook.com that gives the activity level of each progestin in progestational and androgenic activity. It even ranks the pills as far as level. I also use the formula I got off www.wdxcyber.com/ncontr13.htm.

The strength for Yasmin as far as progestational activity was a 4.5 when compared to norethindrone as a 1.0 comparable. So it is much higher than norethindrone or demulen1.4 or ortho cept at1.35 . Ortho cyclen was .3 alesse .5 ovcon was .5 lo-ovral .8 and ortho novum 1.0.

You must also take into consideration the estrogen level when looking at progestational effect. A higher level of say .35 will stabilize the affects of a higher prog. better than one of a lower .20 or .25. So how I understand it is that if you take a higher prog. pill and want ot even out side effects from it take at least a .35 estrogen potency pill. They act to counterbalance one another.

Hope this helps!! It can be confusing but has helped me figure all this out and how I ended up on a pill like ortho cyclen lo even though we never considered it before we ran the numbers.

Best of luck!
Chris

fitness_chick · 08-24-2004, 03:27 PM

Actually, those are exactly the calculations I did in my post above, however, couldn't find the information on progestinal activity level in Diane-35 to get a comparison. I couldn't follow the link to the website you posted, not sure if it's the same one in the sticky, but would like to know about the progestin activity level of Diane if anyone knows it?

But I didn't know about balancing the estrogen level and progestin levels. That is good information as well. I am meeting with my new doc tomorrow and am going to ask him and get his take, too.

Thanks!!
Amie