Natural Progesterone Advice

madamebovary · 08-27-2009, 05:28 PM

Hello, this is my first thread post, so bear with me

I was diagnosed with PCOS about 4 months ago, however I suspect I've had it for at least 5 years. My Ob-Gyn presecribed the standard treatment: 500 mg Metformin 2x/day and Loestrin24Fe BCP. I have always been resistant to using a BCP however my Dr. told me that this was my "only hope of a semblance of a cure." Naturally, I gave in.

This is the 2nd month that I've been on the BCP and it has not curbed any of the terrible facial cysts I get along my jawline...infact, after initially taking it, I had a terrible flare-up. My Dr. assured me this was normal and to keep taking the pills. Also, on the second pack, I have had my period for 3 weeks. Obviously, this is very annoying and has me worried that it can't possibly be healthy. Again, my Dr. has told me to keep taking the pills as it takes at least 3 months to reap the benefits of a BCP. However, I've had enough and really really don't feel in my heart this is the answer.

I've had some past success with acupuncture in alleviating some of my symptoms and really value natural, holistic health. I'm very keen to try NATURAL Progesterone (bioidentical hormone), however I need some advice as to when I should start it. Should I wait until I've finished bleeding? I am still bleeding despite finishing the pack three days ago. Or, conversely, should I wait a month or two to "flush" the synthetic hormones from my body? I am already vegan and pretty careful with my diet and am avoiding as many xeno and phytoestrogens as possible after learning about their adverse effects on PCOS (I have a great website that explains it very thoroughly and in scientific yet clear terms for anyone interested--won't let me post it so message me I suppose!)

Oh, let me also mention that I am 22 years old, in relatively good shape due to a strict, strict diet and crazy workout regime, (5'3 and 125 pounds...not bad, but not great either) and that I suffer from periodic cysts along the jawline that sometimes mimic the "string-of-pearls" pattern of the ovarian cysts (my doctor scoffs that this is not possible however I know what I see in the mirror and it just seems a little too uncanny!)

Whew, this is a lot of information however I greatly greatly greatly appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read it and offer any feedback about anything I've mentioned!

Thanks again,
Whitney

miss62 · 08-27-2009, 07:00 PM

Hey girl I know hoe you feel.
I too suffer from cyctic acne.I tried 3 different kind of Bcp and the only one helped was Diane 35 which also had alot of sideeffects and had to stop it becuase of my severe reaction.
anyhow I'm trying Npc too but so far hasnt done much for my acne or either bringing on my AF.
but if you want to try it you should know that you cant use it with Bcp.
also you have to start about day 14 of your cycle.or if you know youe cycle is longer than 28 days then start a bit later.
I hope this would help but as your Dr said be patient girl if you didnt have any side effects from Bcp stay on it for another month and see how it goes.
I have to warn you that once you go off the pill your skin will burst in pimples no matter how long you have stayed on it.10 years or a month.thats what my experience was

Amber2 · 08-27-2009, 07:38 PM

I have been using NPC and it sorted out the cystic acne for me. I am not completely spot free but at least they are only little ones and not great mountains. I bought the book by Dr Lee called What you doctor will not tell you about the pre-menopause (aimed at women in their 30s and 40s). It gives instructions on how to use NPC which is really helpful

froggirl · 08-28-2009, 04:02 AM

You can use NPC several different ways:

1)from cd 14 to 28 or ovulation to menses. This allows both ovulation and menstruation.
2)from cd 7 to 28, like you would take the pill. This blocks ovulation, but still allows a bleed (not technically menstruation since there was no ovulation)
3)consistently for several months (up to 6 mo's straight) to block both ovulation and menstruation and give the ovaries a break.

The NPC package will have dosage amounts, but I usually use 1/2 tsp in both Am and Pm, rubbed onto face, upper arms, belly, thighs, neck as long as you rotate where you apply it each time. I second Amber2's recommendations for Dr. Lee's book.

I've heard good things about using acupuncture. My cousin used it to lengthen her short cycles. I keep thinking I'll try it, but never seem to have the money when I have the time and vice versa. Let us know how it works out for you if you try it!

I thought your correlation between the cysts on your face and on your ovaries was pretty good. In my opinion, they're both ways the body is trying to trap, then release toxins. Our bodies are just getting stuck when it comes to the "releasing" part and we have to help it along.

Also, nice to meet another vegan!

I'm just starting back eating that way after being away from it for a couple years, so I consider myself "almost vegan" but not quite all the way yet. If I remember correctly Dr. Lee briefly mentions in his books about how animal and soy foods can interact with hormones, so by not consuming them you are already one step ahead of the game!

Best of luck to you!

Peggotty · 08-28-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggirl

You can use NPC several different ways:

1)from cd 14 to 28 or ovulation to menses. This allows both ovulation and menstruation.
2)from cd 7 to 28, like you would take the pill. This blocks ovulation, but still allows a bleed (not technically menstruation since there was no ovulation)
3)consistently for several months (up to 6 mo's straight) to block both ovulation and menstruation and give the ovaries a break.

The NPC package will have dosage amounts, but I usually use 1/2 tsp in both Am and Pm, rubbed onto face, upper arms, belly, thighs, neck as long as you rotate where you apply it each time. I second Amber2's recommendations for Dr. Lee's book.

I've heard good things about using acupuncture. My cousin used it to lengthen her short cycles. I keep thinking I'll try it, but never seem to have the money when I have the time and vice versa. Let us know how it works out for you if you try it!

I thought your correlation between the cysts on your face and on your ovaries was pretty good. In my opinion, they're both ways the body is trying to trap, then release toxins. Our bodies are just getting stuck when it comes to the "releasing" part and we have to help it along.

Also, nice to meet another vegan!

I'm just starting back eating that way after being away from it for a couple years, so I consider myself "almost vegan" but not quite all the way yet (98% maybe). If I remember correctly Dr. Lee briefly mentions in his books about how animal and soy foods can interact with hormones, so by not consuming them you are already one step ahead of the game!

Best of luck to you!

I'm a vegetarian, and I would like to try to eat healthier though. Even as a vegetarian, I dont eat very healthy as I am eating carbs, starches, and lots of soy. I though soy was a staple for any vegetarian/vegan, but I've been reading that it may mess hormones up.

For the vegans out there, what is your typical diet consist of? any help would be appreciated.

madamebovary · 08-29-2009, 05:49 PM

Thanks so much for all your wonderful replies/helpful suggestions!

Because I'm still not sure where my body is at (still won't stop bleeding almost 1 month later!) I decided to make an appointment with a well-recommended naturopath who is familiar with bioidenticals (and thus natural progesterone) so that he can make the best judgment call on how I should proceed!

I'm looking forward to asking him lots of questions about things I should be avoiding on a toxin level (plastics, parabens, pesticides, etc)...hopefully I'll learn some new things, too, and be able to share with you all!

In response to your question about soy: apparently it contains "phytoestrogens" which, for normal people, aren't really a big deal but for those of use with PCOS, we tend to be estrogen-challenged as it is and piling up more estrogen in the forms of soy and through other materials (xenoestrogens) only contributes to the problem! I wish I had known this when I became vegan almost 1 year ago but...oh well! You live and learn! I try to stay away from carbs due to insulin-resistance but I do eat lots of berries, apples, and other fruits that may be carbilicious but the pros outweigh the cons by a landslide. My staples are veggies, nuts, hummus, fruit, and then things like hempseed milk and oil and various supplements. It's pretty tricky and sometimes I run the risk of not eating enough so I'm always trying to improve upon my diet!

Anywho, my appt, is on Sept. 1 so I'll be sure to update y'all with the results!

froggirl · 08-29-2009, 06:37 PM

MadameBovary, would you be able to send me the link you were talking about in a PM or are you able to write it out and spell out dot com at the end? Not sure if you can do that or not. I'm always interested in more info on Phytoestrogens because I'm still so confused about them!

Pegotty, Hi there. Don't worry, you're not alone! Most of the vegans/vegetarians I know personally (especially those who made the decision based on respect for the environment or compassion toward animals and not necessarily for health reasons) eliminated animal products, but didn't really change the quality of the rest of their diet, i.e. still consuming a lot of bread, baked goods (white flour, white sugar), few veggies, if any and soy, soy, soy. I was so surprised by the number of vegetarians I knew who basically... didn't eat vegetables. When I started to try to eat a plant based diet for health reasons, I had already decided to eliminate soy and most white flour products from my diet as well as animal products, so I lucked out in not having to do a second elimination of the vegan foods that aren't as good for me, too. Here are some examples of what I try to eat. I'm sorry if it's so long, I haven't mastered the art of brevity yet and I wanted to give a variety of examples.

I also don't mean to come off "preachy" at all, I've just researched food and hormones on my own for a long time trying to figure this whole PCOS thing out, and I've finally found what works for me. I know that what works for me isn't going to work for all. Best wishes!

Breakfast:
Superfood shake (2TB superfood, 1/2 cup apple juice, 1 cup Water, 1/2 a banana or other fruit, whatever supplements I'm taking that blend well)

Mid morning snack: Fruit and nuts
-Apple w/ some walnuts
-Pear w/ cashew butter
-Grapefruit w/ some almonds

Lunch: Soup, Salad, or Sandwich and some raw veggies
-Lentil vegetable soup (or minestrone w/beans, or vegan chili, etc) w/wholegrain crackers (or croutons, or cornbread) and some baby carrots w/dip
-Taco salad (I make it just like I used to, except use kidney beans instead of beef and organic Mexican Seasoning instead of the Taco Seasoning packets that contain additives and MSG.) I serve that over Romaine lettuce, onions, tomatoes and peppers and top with dressing and crumbled organic corn chips
-Gardenburger (store bought or homemade) on wholegrain bread w/vegenaise, lettuce, tomato, pickle, onion and a side of fresh veggies w/dip or hummus

Afternoon snack:
-Open faced nut/seed butter and banana sandwich on wholegrain toast
-Raw veggies w/Tuscan White bean dip
-Guacamole w/refried beans, salsa and organic corn chips (this also makes a filling lunch or dinner when served like Nachos Grande)

Dinner: Bean dish, Vegetable, Carbohydrate, Salad
-White bean casserole, steamed broccoli, creamy cucumber salad (cucumbers, onions, vegenaise, apple cider vinegar, salt 'n pepper)
-Vegan Shepherd's pie (w/beans instead of soy crumbles), steamed veggies, side salad
-Chickpea ala King (from recipe on vegweb.com, although I modified mine and blended the chickpeas with the gravy together and didn't add the flour) served over wholegrain toast points, with a side of veggies.

Desert:
-Dark Chocolate covered almonds or high % of cocoa dark chocolate
-Homemade fruit crisp (I use either peaches, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, etc. The topping has oatmeal, pecans, cinnamon, earth balance and I sweeten fruit w/stevia or agave syrup)
-Cookies and almond milk

Nighttime snack:
-Small bowl of whole grain cereal w/almond milk
-Popcorn w/earthbalance or olive oil and salt 'n pepper and sometimes nutritional yeast to make it Cheezy
-Milkshake (almond milk, fruit, stevia)

I try to cook all of the bean dishes for the week in one or two days and then I just reheat it and do the sides fresh each day. I just noticed that several of the foods above are Mexican (I'm on a Mexican food kick right now) but I do a lot of Asian meals (Asian veggies over brown rice w/ Adzuki bean dumplings) and Indian meals (Chana Saag [Chickpeas 'n Spinach] over brown basmati rice w/curried cauliflower) and Mediterranean meals (Mediterranean three bean pasta salad) too. Ok, now I've gone overboard. I didn't mean to hijack this thread as an ode to my own love of food!

madamebovary · 08-30-2009, 03:48 PM

I'd be more than happy to PM you the link, frog girl. Also....your diet sounds amazing! It's pretty similar to mine in terms of the types of foods and combinations but you definitely have a great balance in terms of getting all the nutrients you need! I need to put more work in to make sure I'm not just eating the same foods over and over because I know they're 1) easy and 2) good for me. Lol.

froggirl · 09-08-2009, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the links. They were very interesting. Hope your appointment went well!

JenSlayton · 09-09-2009, 03:43 AM

Check out this site: http://natural-fertility-info.com/pr...ertility-guide
You can also read "What your doctor may not tell you about menopause" by Dr. John Lee.

If you have PCOS and it seems like you have signs of estrogen dominance, you might want to be super careful with the regular use of soy in the vegan diet... the excess estrogen can make the acne worse.

jacquiej · 09-11-2009, 12:46 PM

This thread has been very helpful and interesting to me! First off, I am needing to induce AF. A little background - I went off BCPs 7/4 after being on them mostly for 20 years. I have PCOS, endometriosis, and fibroids. I also found out in June that I have an enlarged liver.

So I decided to stop bcps and started eating a sometimes-aterian diet! I have to admit - I am not strict enough to eat a strictly vegetarian diet but I have cut way back on the amount of meat I eat and have been doing a lot of vegetarian dishes lately. I also switched over to antibiotic-free, hormone-free meats and dairy and mostly organic produce because I believe that the hormones in the meat and dairy are in part to blame for the screwed up state of my hormones! And I am trying to rid my diet of a lot of the toxins that have been in it so I have gotten rid of most processed foods from my diet. That being said I was doing really well but in the last week I have seriously gone back to my old bad ways and I feel like dog do-do now! Hmm, I wonder why that is....dugh?!?!?!? So I am going to go back to the healthy eating.

Now back to the NPC- I haven't had a period since I went off the bcps. I was ok until this week and now I am spotting a little and have the worst cramps! Like somebody said it is like my body is trying to work right but it keeps backfiring!!! I am thinking that a little NPC might get me started and that will help with the feeling crappy!

Also, I have been seeing an acupuncturist since June for my liver and the fibroids. I think I am going to see what he can do for straightening out my hormones in general.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all of the great info in this thread!

madamebovary · 09-12-2009, 03:41 PM

I'm so glad there are more people interested in the natural alternatives to BCP...makes it just a little easier!

As an update: I've seen the naturopath twice and he's been great in terms of really listening to me and taking into account ALL my history. The next time I see him, he's going to introduce the hormone-saliva tests, which I will take everyday on my own for an entire cycle and then send to the lab to be analyzed. I think this is really great because it will give him a chance to see exactly WHEN and WHERE my hormones are acting up and so he can tailor the NPC and possibly other supplements around my immediate needs! Also, much more effective than the blood test the endo performed--that really didnt help in getting a proper diagnosis at all!

As soon as I have more info on what my hormones are up to, I'll share! Oh and also, I DID breakout like crazy in HUGE cysts after I went off the BCP but after a photo-facial and an herbal treatment I'm happy to say that they've subsided really quickly, and serve as proof that BCP is quite nasty stuff and shouldn't be in my body!

Anywho, hope everyone has a great weekend!

tysmama · 09-12-2009, 06:24 PM

wow this was a intresting thread and very useful!

froggirl · 09-12-2009, 06:38 PM

MadameBovary,
Wow, I'm green with envy. I wish there was a Dr. like that around here! If you don't mind me asking, is the saliva testing expensive? I checked one out through a mail order co. and am still deciding whether to do it or not. Good luck!

jacquiej,
"Sometimes-aterian..." Lol! Love that! I totally fell off the wagon this past week, too and now I'm paying for it with cramping mid cycle (not due to O), moodiness, and yeah, feeling like dog poo is a good description.

My body does that too when I'm trying to get AF and she just doesn't want to show up. Cramping, spotting, nothing... cramping... nothing...etc. it's like 'the little train that could' trying to get up the hill and doesn't quite make it... coasts back down and tries it again. I hadn't had AF for six months earlier this year, then started NPC for two weeks, went off, had cramping/spotting... Did NPC cream again for a couple weeks, got AF but it was kinda half-hearted (brown, light, smelly, 3-5 days). Then did NPC for a couple weeks again, waited a week or so and finally got a magnificent AF (heavy, bright red, 5-7 days). This was also when I was being very good with my diet/exercise. Ok, I'm getting back on the wagon now.

adventureprincess · 09-24-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amber2

I have been using NPC and it sorted out the cystic acne for me. I am not completely spot free but at least they are only little ones and not great mountains. I bought the book by Dr Lee called What you doctor will not tell you about the pre-menopause (aimed at women in their 30s and 40s). It gives instructions on how to use NPC which is really helpful

YES!! This book has been SO great for helping me understand the importance/role of every hormone and why I have PCOS, etc.

Highly recommend!