On a side note, Premarin, made from the urine of pregnant mares, is an estrogen replacement therapy, and has nothing to do with progesterone or progestin.
It's an example of something that our bodies aren't familiar with, vs. what is natural and bioidentical.
Okie dokie.... well I called Nature's Bounty, the company that makes the cream I have been using, and talked with a dietician there who said that the progesterone in their cream has been synthesized so that our bodies can break it down. It is derived from yams but she explained how in its raw form that the yam progesterone can't be broken down by our bodies, so that's why they synthesize it for us... It made sense when she explained it.
Yeah, that's what Saren and I were just chatting about. It's confusing, isn't it? Ultimately, wild yam cream and progesterone cream (usp) derived from wild yams are different.
Someone once told me on another list that prometrium from your doc is better than anything you could get in the store, but I never asked my doc for a scrip. Also, I guess the best would be if you could get your doc to write you a scrip for the exact dose you need so you could get it compounded at a compounding pharmacy (that's truly bio-identical)...but I've never gone that far, and honestly am happy with my results from emerita.
One thing I have been told is npc should only be used in the short term, because, used in the long term it can cause fatigue, etc. I don't know if it's true or not, because I've never really used it for more than three months at a time. The last time I used it for three months, then I quit to see if I would cycle on my own, I did, apparently. That was the month I got the beautiful surprise you see in my sig!
Sorry, just rambling...but that's what this thread is for, right?
What Does Bioidentical Really Mean? http://www.hormoneprofile.com/Librar...caldefined.htm
Bioidentical means "IDENTICAL". Bio-identical does not mean "similar". Bioidentical means the hormone molecule in the product is EXACTLY like the molecule produced by the human body. Bioidentical means "exactly the same", "identical".
The Bioidentical Hormones:
Natural hormones are the hormones the human body normally produces. They include estrone, estradiol, and estriol, progesterone, testosterone, androstenedione, and dehydroepiandosterone (DHEA). Natural hormones can be derived or synthesized outside the human body from wild yams and soy plants. They can be converted using the Marker Method in laboratories to hormones, which are identical (bioidentical) to those made by the human body. They must, however, be converted and synthesized properly. We all know, for instance, that wild yam cream is NOT progesterone. "Bioidentical" simply means the hormone molecule is EXACTLY like the molecule found in the human body. It also means the resulting hormone molecule is not just "similar" to the human body hormone molecule. A bioidentical hormone acts in the body exactly like your own hormones. They are metabolized in the same way. Bio-identical hormones serve as precursors for making other hormones. They function in your body naturally and normally.
Naturally occurring substances are not patentable.
Patents cannot be obtained for estriol, progesterone, testosterone, estradiol, or any of the other human body natural hormones. Patents are only obtainable for the base, or mixture, of the cream, the dosage, the formula, or for the delivery mechanism by which the bio-identical hormone molecule is delivered into your body. No patents possible means no big money for the huge pharmaceutical companies. Big money was possible only through the "patented hormones" or the "synthetic hormones." All those health care provider's orders for "hormone replacement therapy"! All those Premarin, Prempro, Premphase health care provider's orders that proved so risky that on July 9, 2002, a government study was halted 3 years early because of the dangerous health risks!
The Synthetic Hormones
So an entire drug industry was born for Hormone Replacement Therapy pills, shots, health care provider's orders, drugs and pharmaceuticals with confusing and misleading names like Premarin, PremPro, Premphase, Provera, Estratab, and many more: patented synthetic hormones. They have names that have a lot of "pro's" or "est's" in them. These are artificial hormones that have been altered from the original hormone molecule and do not act or look like natural hormones. They look "similar" chemically, but they are NOT bio-identical to the natural hormone molecule.
ETA: Copied & pasted to the first page of the thread, also.
Last edited by Sarendipitous; 08-15-2006 at 08:52 PM.
*A progestin is a synthetic progestagen. These particular synthetic hormones are most often used in the production of contraceptives.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progestins
http://www.well-again.com/progesterone-info.htm
Progestins is the name given to a class of compounds created and patented by various drug companies that resemble Progesterone - but are actually NOT Progesterone. Not only do Progestins not react like Natural Progesterone but instead the body actually treats Progestins (Provera for example) as it does a foreign substance. As a result the body often suffers many adverse reactions. The the rather large and significant adverse reactions can be found listed in the PDR (Physicians Drug Reference Manual) for the various Progestins. They make sober reading.
ETA: Copied & pasted to the first page of the thread, also.
Last edited by Sarendipitous; 08-15-2006 at 08:53 PM.
NATURAL VS. SYNTHETIC HORMONES (ERT)
Not too long ago Dr. Lee was confronted at a conference by the owner of a large herbal products company who claimed that Dr. Lee was incorrect in referring to the progesterone used in the creams as "natural" because it was manufactured or synthesized in a laboratory, and that made it synthetic. This is a confusion in semantics that we hear frequently. In fact progesterone is far more natural to your body than any plant is because your body actually manufactures the identical substance. The progesterone manufactured in the laboratory has the identical molecular configuration of the progesterone that your body makes. It does not matter if the body makes the hormone, or a chemist makes it from a plant extract or from anything else. If it is the identical molecule, it is the identical hormone.
The source of the progesterone is unimportant in this context. We usually think of the word synthetic as meaning something that is produced artificially, and is not found in nature, such as plastics and pharmaceutical drugs. For example, the "hormone" Provera is made from the same substances that natural progesterone is made from, but the molecular configuration of it is changed in the laboratory so that it is not identical to anything found in nature.
But natural progesterone made in the laboratory is identical to that made in the human body. In other words, what makes a substance "synthetic" or "natural" in this context is whether or not it can be found in nature.
The same distinctions apply to estrogens. The two types of estrogen in Premarin taken separately are natural (found in nature) and not synthetic, but not all of the estrogen in Premarin is natural to humans. About half of it is human estrogen, and about half is horse estrogen -- a molecule not found in the human body. It's ironic that the manufacturer of Premarin has tried to advertise it as a natural product. Since about half of the estrogen in Premarin is estrone (which is natural to humans) and the other half consists of a different estrogen that is natural only to horses and is extracted from pregnant horse urine, it is natural, strictly speaking, only if you are half horse and half human!
It's unfortunate that so much of estrogen research has been done with Premarin, so we don't have a truly accurate knowledge base of the effects of human estrogen versus horse estrogen. Natural estrogens extracted from wild yams or soybeans that are identical to those made by the human body are easily available by prescription in the form of creams, tablets and patches. These are estrone, estradiol and estriol, so there is no reason to take horse estrogen.
Plants do not make human hormones, but some plants make compounds that have some hormonal effect. These, in their natural form, are called phytohormones ("plant-based" hormones). Although they are not the same as our hormones they may have some hormonal activity. We'll cover those in more detail shortly. Some plants make substances that are quite similar to animal cholesterol or animal hormones, but they have no hormonal effect. Such compounds, called sterols, are easily chemically modified so that they become identical to human hormones. An example of this is the diosgenin that is extracted from wild yams and soybeans to make human hormones in the laboratory.
ETA: Copied & pasted to the first page of the thread, also.
Last edited by Sarendipitous; 08-15-2006 at 08:53 PM.
Progestins is the name given to a class of compounds created and patented by various drug companies that resemble Progesterone - but are actually NOT Progesterone. Not only do Progestins not react like Natural Progesterone but instead the body actually treats Progestins (Provera for example) as it does a foreign substance. As a result the body often suffers many adverse reactions.
Exactly!
Thanks for posting all this, Saren. You are such a cool lady
If a product does not say USP on it, there is a chance that it uses progestins instead of natural progesterone. So be advised when you're shopping for NPC, it is important to find one that has USP on the label. I think the "Rexall debate" needs to be put to rest already. Rexall does not say USP on the label, so why risk it? There are plenty of other creams out there that do say it. No one is wrong for using Rexall, just possibly not quite as informed as they could be. Fair enough?
Last edited by Sarendipitous; 08-15-2006 at 12:40 AM.
Just FYI, I tried to tidy up the thread, but it will only let me do a "soft delete" so it looks no different, save for the fact that my name is now the one who deleted the posts, rather than the posters. Kind of annoying.
Anyway, carry on.
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He said withdrawal bleeding from stopping npc was not a "real" period, whatever tf that means.
But he prescribes Prometrium or Provera, right? So would he consider a withdrawal bleed from those as not a real period either? I thought a bleed was a bleed, no matter how it came about. But then again, that's just me. Sorry, I just got a kick out of his thinking! LOL
__________________ Rebecca ~ 35
DH Matt ~ 39
Married 11-20-04
TTC'd #1 for over four years. Never pregnant.
Reconciling from a separation from my husband, TTC will likely resume after the first of the year...fingers crossed!
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No one is wrong for using Rexall, just possibly not quite as informed as they could be. Fair enough?
I think that's fair. What a person decides to use is always a personal choice, but I do hope that people will read the posts and the links that you provided before they make their final determination.
If anyone is concerned about the cost, real NPC doesn't seem to be any more expensive in general than the fake stuff- and with Rexall in particular, it's only about $8 cheaper than, say, Emerita's Pro-Gest, which is a quality NPC. In other words, NPC won't eat a hole in your wallet
I think the "Rexall debate" needs to be put to rest already. Rexall does not say USP on the label, so why risk it? There are plenty of other creams out there that do say it. No one is wrong for using Rexall, just possibly not quite as informed as they could be. Fair enough?
Absolutely! Let's put the Rexall business behind us... you've posted some great research Saren, and we all thank you for it.
__________________ Ashleigh (26) & Matt (26)- Married 7 years
Morgan Wesley (DS)- 12/08/05, 9 lbs. 4 oz.
Emma Ireline (DD)- 5/19/07, 8 lbs, 10 oz.
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Oh, I forgot to comment on the whole "withdrawal bleeding" comment that your doctor made... I think the bleed that happens after NPC/prometrium is the same as what happens when you take the inactive pills in a BCP pack. So if a doctor is pro-BCP, why would he care about you using NPC? Also, when I was using Prometrium, I O'd 4 out of 5 cycles on it. I think having a regular AF got my body into a rhythm (sp?) and that helped it figure out what to do. Just my thoughts!
__________________ Ashleigh (26) & Matt (26)- Married 7 years
Morgan Wesley (DS)- 12/08/05, 9 lbs. 4 oz.
Emma Ireline (DD)- 5/19/07, 8 lbs, 10 oz.
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I think he meant that it was an anovulatory cycle; there was bleeding, but no ovulation.
Ah! I never thought of that. I bet that's exactly what he meant. But my thinking is, ovulatory or not, at least I was shedding my lining, which is important. That's why Ashleigh's bcp scenario makes sense.
