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alpha · 02-24-2004, 02:16 PM

What about milk thistle? I had hoped to take milk thistle with gluc to counteract any negative effects on the liver, but remember reading that it's a no-no. Can't remember why though. Anyone?

xmelinda · 02-26-2004, 11:08 AM

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but just to clarify about B12...

Christy, I know you have mentioned in the past that taking B12 helped you combat the fatigue that can come with metformin, so I'm curious as to whether you just took a good multivit, or whether you added extra B12 to your multivit? Fatigue was a big enough problem for me the last time I tried metformin that I had to stop it.

I currently take a multivit, just your basic Centrum-type thing, and I take extra folic acid and extra calcium. I don't take a prenatal vit because I am hypothyroid and I don't want to get into trouble taking too much iron.

I know that even when the bottles say 100 percent of "RDA" for vitamins, sometimes that amount is still less than recommended for some therapeutic purposes, so I'm just wondering if you took *extra* B12, you know what I mean?

Melinda

BKuntz · 02-26-2004, 12:56 PM

In regards to the B12 info--I tt my endo just last week about it and she said that a Super B Complex is more then enough, because your body simply flushes away what it doesn't need.

I also take a multi-vitamin (One A Day for Women) and a calcium supplement (the little chocolate cubes whose name has suddenly vanished from my mind). I'm still rather tired, but the endo contributed it to overall PCOS.

Beth

tracy.lee · 03-24-2004, 02:31 AM

Hi

I am am embrassed to admit it, but I am really confused about Calcium and Magnesium :o

I read the section where they were mentioned twice and still can't understand how taking met affects Cal and Mag.

does Met have a negaitve affect on Cal and Mag?

Should I be taking Cal and Mag supplments?

Could someone please explain how taking Met affect Cal and Mag, Please

Thanks

nobimbo · 03-24-2004, 09:59 AM

Tracy Lee,

That article is saying that calcium supplements can negate the B12 deficiency problem that can happen with Met, so yes, calcium supplements can be beneficial while on Met. The magnesium issue is unclear, but it seemed to be beneficial to diabetics who had increased magnesium loss to take the Met. Many calcium supplements also have magnesium as they work together. There is a strong link between magnesium deficiency and insulin resistance. So a good calcium with magnesium supplement may be helpful to women with PCOS, especially while taking Met.

Linda

meeka · 03-25-2004, 04:12 PM

My doc started me on met before the liver test was done. A week later they did the liver test and my ALT and AST were in the 170's. They took me off met. Two weeks later the liver specialist checked my ALT and AST levels and they were slightly elevated: 42 and 38.

I think when you first start taking met as your body adjusts to it you levels spike.

I've also lost 20 lbs during this whole cycle of testing the liver levels.

indian_beauty · 04-16-2004, 03:56 AM

Hi Linda, Christy and any others who may know....

can U girls tell me whether it is ok to take metformin with low dose combined BCPs....??? My doc's ordered me to take 3 months of Ovral-L before starting TTC again to get my hormones in a bit better condition...I read somewhere that a study declared metformin and BCPs r a great combination for PCOS ladies but I'm not very sure about it....if any of you have any info on that pl post it. I'd hate to stop metformin 'cause it's made a great difference in my life and would also like to get my whacky hormones in line so I can start TTC again....so if there r not major s/e of taking these together I'd like to start both of them soon..

thanks

nobimbo · 04-16-2004, 07:03 AM

I have never seen or heard of any negative interactions with Met and BCP's. Met works on the underlying problem, while BCP's tend to mask the symptoms. However, going on and then off BCP's can cause hormonal changes which may worsen symptoms. But I see no reason to stop taking Met while on them, and the BCP may just give your body the push it needs for ovulation.

Linda

indian_beauty · 04-16-2004, 07:53 AM

Hi Linda,
Thanks for the quick post....my doc wants me on bcps for 3 months 'cause she wants to manage my hormones a bit - LH and FSH...LH fell due to metformin i think but FSH increased by 2 points in 2 years.....she feels that once I'm off BCPs ovulation may occur spontaneously.....but I was worried about the met bit...she didn't mention anything about it so I wondered if she forgot to tell me what to do about met...but I guess its ok to take it with bcps....I couldn't get any info on the net which said that met and bcps don't go with each other...so I guess I'll go ahead with the two...

thanks once more

xmelinda · 04-16-2004, 11:35 AM

Just one little "two-cents" warning from me...

I used to sing the praises of BCP, and argue with people who said PCOSers shouldn't take them, because BCPs were the only way I could have periods. I've changed my mind, though, and I'll tell you why.

Now, I'm not saying that what happened to me will be true for you. Everyone has to make her own choices, and different women react different ways. I just want to tell you what I do know, so you'll have more info to use when deciding.

I was on BCP for several years. I stopped them when DH and I decided to TTC. A couple of months after stopping, I developed Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and am now on meds for hypothyroidism. I didn't think about any possible connection to BCP, but as I was reading about thyroid disease, I read about how estrogen affects the thyroid. Estrogen binds to thyroid hormone, making it unavailable for use, and sets off a reaction that eventually can cause your thyroid to stop working properly.

The connection between hypothyroidism and PCOS is only just now being studied, but it's been known for a while that PCOSers seem to be at higher risk for hypothyroidism. It *is* known that the thyroid reacts to other estrogen effects. For example, some women become hypothyroid in the early stages of pregnancy. Some women have thyroid problems relating to soy intake, since soy acts like estrogen. I asked my mom if when she had to change her thyroid meds dosage, was it right after she stopped taking hormones for menopause, and she said yes.

So, no doctor has told me this, but I have talked to lots of other PCOSers who had the same thing happen to them, and I do believe that taking the pill for so long and then stopping it is what triggered my thyroid disease.

YMMV, and take my story with a grain of salt, but I wanted to put it out there.

Melinda

JezzabellNY · 04-17-2004, 02:13 PM

Wondering if you girls can help me, I'm ttc and I just got a call from the RE office and they said that the last time they did blood work on me, the numbers for the liver enzymes started to go up again and they want me to stop taking the metformin. (I didn't even know they ran another test on my liver, I've been taking it for 3+months)
I'm annoyed because I do believe it was helping me.
I once heard that excess iron makes the liver enzymes go up, so when I stopped taking prenatals, the liver enzymes went down (dunno if it was coincidence or not). Well last month or so the RE told me to make sure to take prenatals... and now they are up. Could it be from the iron? I can't find prenatals that don't have iron..

Raiderette · 04-17-2004, 04:18 PM

Jezz-
I get my pre-natals from GNC they have a no iron version and so does Trader Joes .
Good Luck.

JezzabellNY · 04-17-2004, 08:03 PM

THANKS- do you think that could've been causing a problem??

Raiderette · 04-17-2004, 09:51 PM

I have debated going on Pre-natals w/ Iron now that we are Preg. and I was going to compare the numbers after I switched.
I do know that my numbers were looking better with out the iron. Now I am more concerned the bebee is getting what she needs.
I have not been overly concerned with it lately since the met worked for me to get me this far.
I think that would have to be a decision for you and you Dr.

indian_beauty · 04-19-2004, 01:51 AM

HI Melinda,
Thanks for the input......I'll discuss this issue with my doc...but I'll be on BCPs only for 3 months and it's a low dose one...Lo-ovral....so I thought it shouldn't pose too mnay problems with me....but frankly I HATE bcps...they make me cranky and ill tempered and I snap at everyone....get bloated....so I'm actually against it and am planning on trying to dissuade my doc from putting me on them.....plus I hate to put TTC on hold for another 3 months.....
thanks for the info tho'....it was certainly something i'd like to discuss with my doc....

02-26-2004, 12:56 PM	#33 (permalink)
BKuntz Smiling SoulCyster Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 293 My Mood: Points: 2,120.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 2,120.00 Donate	In regards to the B12 info--I tt my endo just last week about it and she said that a Super B Complex is more then enough, because your body simply flushes away what it doesn't need. I also take a multi-vitamin (One A Day for Women) and a calcium supplement (the little chocolate cubes whose name has suddenly vanished from my mind). I'm still rather tired, but the endo contributed it to overall PCOS. Beth __________________ Beth-38 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Check out a new website for fellow cysters!! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. DH - Bob 33 5 cats and 1 crazy dog

03-24-2004, 02:31 AM	#34 (permalink)
tracy.lee Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Island, New Zealand Posts: 177 Points: 7,861.52 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 7,861.52 Donate	Hi I am am embrassed to admit it, but I am really confused about Calcium and Magnesium :o I read the section where they were mentioned twice and still can't understand how taking met affects Cal and Mag. does Met have a negaitve affect on Cal and Mag? Should I be taking Cal and Mag supplments? Could someone please explain how taking Met affect Cal and Mag, Please Thanks __________________ Tracy (41) DH (41) 3 sons aged 16, 13, 7

03-24-2004, 09:59 AM	#35 (permalink)
nobimbo Google Junkie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 3,414 Points: 101,021.93 Bank: 18,549.71 Total Points: 119,571.64 Donate	Tracy Lee, That article is saying that calcium supplements can negate the B12 deficiency problem that can happen with Met, so yes, calcium supplements can be beneficial while on Met. The magnesium issue is unclear, but it seemed to be beneficial to diabetics who had increased magnesium loss to take the Met. Many calcium supplements also have magnesium as they work together. There is a strong link between magnesium deficiency and insulin resistance. So a good calcium with magnesium supplement may be helpful to women with PCOS, especially while taking Met. Linda __________________ dx pcos 1984, type II diabetes 2001, also hypertension Met 2000mg since 2001, started Glucophage XR 4/22/04, then switched to Met ER 6/04; also: multi, Vit. C, Vit. E, B12/folic acid combo, fish oil & borage oil combo, garlic capsules, cinnamon, Vitex, calcium with magnesium/zinc, biotin, CoQ10, selenium,iron Other meds: Verapamil and Altace(for blood pressure) Started laser hair removal 7/29/03, completed 3/04 (it works!) UAE for fibroid 3/24/03 and 3/16/04

03-25-2004, 04:12 PM	#36 (permalink)
meeka Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MN Posts: 71 My Mood: Points: 1,621.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,621.18 Donate	My doc started me on met before the liver test was done. A week later they did the liver test and my ALT and AST were in the 170's. They took me off met. Two weeks later the liver specialist checked my ALT and AST levels and they were slightly elevated: 42 and 38. I think when you first start taking met as your body adjusts to it you levels spike. I've also lost 20 lbs during this whole cycle of testing the liver levels. __________________ Michelle To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-16-2004, 03:56 AM	#37 (permalink)
indian_beauty Cheerful !! Hopeful !! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Live in a Wonderful World!! Posts: 322 Points: 1,708.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,708.00 Donate	Hi Linda, Christy and any others who may know.... can U girls tell me whether it is ok to take metformin with low dose combined BCPs....??? My doc's ordered me to take 3 months of Ovral-L before starting TTC again to get my hormones in a bit better condition...I read somewhere that a study declared metformin and BCPs r a great combination for PCOS ladies but I'm not very sure about it....if any of you have any info on that pl post it. I'd hate to stop metformin 'cause it's made a great difference in my life and would also like to get my whacky hormones in line so I can start TTC again....so if there r not major s/e of taking these together I'd like to start both of them soon.. thanks __________________ 31 Years, 5'2", haven't measured my weight for long Target weight 110lbs/50kgs Married since Jan 2000 to the love of my life!! Have a beautiful baby girl!! Hoping and Loving and Praying and Working Silently

02-24-2004, 02:16 PM	#31 (permalink)
alpha Hi! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18 Points: 226.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 226.00 Donate	What about milk thistle? I had hoped to take milk thistle with gluc to counteract any negative effects on the liver, but remember reading that it's a no-no. Can't remember why though. Anyone?

02-26-2004, 11:08 AM	#32 (permalink)
xmelinda Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lexington KY Posts: 129 Points: 2,310.85 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 2,310.85 Donate	I don't want to beat a dead horse, but just to clarify about B12... Christy, I know you have mentioned in the past that taking B12 helped you combat the fatigue that can come with metformin, so I'm curious as to whether you just took a good multivit, or whether you added extra B12 to your multivit? Fatigue was a big enough problem for me the last time I tried metformin that I had to stop it. I currently take a multivit, just your basic Centrum-type thing, and I take extra folic acid and extra calcium. I don't take a prenatal vit because I am hypothyroid and I don't want to get into trouble taking too much iron. I know that even when the bottles say 100 percent of "RDA" for vitamins, sometimes that amount is still less than recommended for some therapeutic purposes, so I'm just wondering if you took extra B12, you know what I mean? Melinda

04-16-2004, 07:03 AM	#38 (permalink)
nobimbo Google Junkie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 3,414 Points: 101,021.93 Bank: 18,549.71 Total Points: 119,571.64 Donate	I have never seen or heard of any negative interactions with Met and BCP's. Met works on the underlying problem, while BCP's tend to mask the symptoms. However, going on and then off BCP's can cause hormonal changes which may worsen symptoms. But I see no reason to stop taking Met while on them, and the BCP may just give your body the push it needs for ovulation. Linda __________________ dx pcos 1984, type II diabetes 2001, also hypertension Met 2000mg since 2001, started Glucophage XR 4/22/04, then switched to Met ER 6/04; also: multi, Vit. C, Vit. E, B12/folic acid combo, fish oil & borage oil combo, garlic capsules, cinnamon, Vitex, calcium with magnesium/zinc, biotin, CoQ10, selenium,iron Other meds: Verapamil and Altace(for blood pressure) Started laser hair removal 7/29/03, completed 3/04 (it works!) UAE for fibroid 3/24/03 and 3/16/04

04-16-2004, 07:53 AM	#39 (permalink)
indian_beauty Cheerful !! Hopeful !! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Live in a Wonderful World!! Posts: 322 Points: 1,708.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,708.00 Donate	Hi Linda, Thanks for the quick post....my doc wants me on bcps for 3 months 'cause she wants to manage my hormones a bit - LH and FSH...LH fell due to metformin i think but FSH increased by 2 points in 2 years.....she feels that once I'm off BCPs ovulation may occur spontaneously.....but I was worried about the met bit...she didn't mention anything about it so I wondered if she forgot to tell me what to do about met...but I guess its ok to take it with bcps....I couldn't get any info on the net which said that met and bcps don't go with each other...so I guess I'll go ahead with the two... thanks once more __________________ 31 Years, 5'2", haven't measured my weight for long Target weight 110lbs/50kgs Married since Jan 2000 to the love of my life!! Have a beautiful baby girl!! Hoping and Loving and Praying and Working Silently

04-16-2004, 11:35 AM	#40 (permalink)
xmelinda Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lexington KY Posts: 129 Points: 2,310.85 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 2,310.85 Donate	BCPs and Thyroid Just one little "two-cents" warning from me... I used to sing the praises of BCP, and argue with people who said PCOSers shouldn't take them, because BCPs were the only way I could have periods. I've changed my mind, though, and I'll tell you why. Now, I'm not saying that what happened to me will be true for you. Everyone has to make her own choices, and different women react different ways. I just want to tell you what I do know, so you'll have more info to use when deciding. I was on BCP for several years. I stopped them when DH and I decided to TTC. A couple of months after stopping, I developed Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and am now on meds for hypothyroidism. I didn't think about any possible connection to BCP, but as I was reading about thyroid disease, I read about how estrogen affects the thyroid. Estrogen binds to thyroid hormone, making it unavailable for use, and sets off a reaction that eventually can cause your thyroid to stop working properly. The connection between hypothyroidism and PCOS is only just now being studied, but it's been known for a while that PCOSers seem to be at higher risk for hypothyroidism. It is known that the thyroid reacts to other estrogen effects. For example, some women become hypothyroid in the early stages of pregnancy. Some women have thyroid problems relating to soy intake, since soy acts like estrogen. I asked my mom if when she had to change her thyroid meds dosage, was it right after she stopped taking hormones for menopause, and she said yes. So, no doctor has told me this, but I have talked to lots of other PCOSers who had the same thing happen to them, and I do believe that taking the pill for so long and then stopping it is what triggered my thyroid disease. YMMV, and take my story with a grain of salt, but I wanted to put it out there. Melinda

04-17-2004, 02:13 PM	#41 (permalink)
JezzabellNY Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New Windsor, NY Posts: 99 Points: 505.63 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 505.63 Donate	Wondering if you girls can help me, I'm ttc and I just got a call from the RE office and they said that the last time they did blood work on me, the numbers for the liver enzymes started to go up again and they want me to stop taking the metformin. (I didn't even know they ran another test on my liver, I've been taking it for 3+months) I'm annoyed because I do believe it was helping me. I once heard that excess iron makes the liver enzymes go up, so when I stopped taking prenatals, the liver enzymes went down (dunno if it was coincidence or not). Well last month or so the RE told me to make sure to take prenatals... and now they are up. Could it be from the iron? I can't find prenatals that don't have iron.. __________________ -Jessica (28) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Wife to Andrew (27) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mommy to Mary Elizabeth, born 5/20/05 with a lymphatic malformation around neck are and has a trach & a gtube To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-17-2004, 04:18 PM	#42 (permalink)
Raiderette Proud Mommy ! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alameda, California Posts: 299 My Mood: Points: 8,827.06 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 8,827.06 Donate	Jezz- I get my pre-natals from GNC they have a no iron version and so does Trader Joes . Good Luck. __________________ Angi: 38 DH: 38 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Noah arrived early Sept. 16, 2006 @ 1:49 pm.

04-17-2004, 08:03 PM	#43 (permalink)
JezzabellNY Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New Windsor, NY Posts: 99 Points: 505.63 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 505.63 Donate	THANKS- do you think that could've been causing a problem?? __________________ -Jessica (28) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Wife to Andrew (27) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mommy to Mary Elizabeth, born 5/20/05 with a lymphatic malformation around neck are and has a trach & a gtube To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-17-2004, 09:51 PM	#44 (permalink)
Raiderette Proud Mommy ! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alameda, California Posts: 299 My Mood: Points: 8,827.06 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 8,827.06 Donate	I have debated going on Pre-natals w/ Iron now that we are Preg. and I was going to compare the numbers after I switched. I do know that my numbers were looking better with out the iron. Now I am more concerned the bebee is getting what she needs. I have not been overly concerned with it lately since the met worked for me to get me this far. I think that would have to be a decision for you and you Dr. __________________ Angi: 38 DH: 38 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Noah arrived early Sept. 16, 2006 @ 1:49 pm.

04-19-2004, 01:51 AM	#45 (permalink)
indian_beauty Cheerful !! Hopeful !! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Live in a Wonderful World!! Posts: 322 Points: 1,708.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,708.00 Donate	HI Melinda, Thanks for the input......I'll discuss this issue with my doc...but I'll be on BCPs only for 3 months and it's a low dose one...Lo-ovral....so I thought it shouldn't pose too mnay problems with me....but frankly I HATE bcps...they make me cranky and ill tempered and I snap at everyone....get bloated....so I'm actually against it and am planning on trying to dissuade my doc from putting me on them.....plus I hate to put TTC on hold for another 3 months..... thanks for the info tho'....it was certainly something i'd like to discuss with my doc.... __________________ 31 Years, 5'2", haven't measured my weight for long Target weight 110lbs/50kgs Married since Jan 2000 to the love of my life!! Have a beautiful baby girl!! Hoping and Loving and Praying and Working Silently

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