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Cher · 04-29-2004, 11:17 AM

Hi guys, I'm still a bit confused. I've been taking my blood sugar every day for 3 days now and have never had even one reading that was high or low. Even after purposlly eating a high sugar meal to see what would happen. Yet my dr says I am insulin resistant and need metformin. How can that be if all blood glucose readings are normal? Any info would be appreciated, thanks Cheryl

nobimbo · 04-29-2004, 07:52 PM

Blood sugar readings can be normal even if insulin levels are high. That is why it is so important to have both a fasting blood sugar and fasting insulin test, followed by a GGT if there are questionable results. If you are insulin resistant with normal blood sugar levels, it is only a matter of time before the bs levels rise as well. You are lucky to have caught this early.

Linda

DianaSophie · 10-15-2004, 11:03 AM

I am planning on taking Milk Thistle to protect the liver from the toxicity of Met. However, someone has mentioned that Milk Thistle should not be used? does anyone know more about this?

thanks

NYbird · 10-18-2004, 04:47 PM

diana, I'd love to know about this too. I can't find anything definitive online anywhere... if you find anything, can you let me know?

cheers
jen x

DianaSophie · 10-19-2004, 05:55 AM

Jen

I'm going to start Metformin in a few months time (when the Endo. sees that i haven't had a period in months). I want to find a comprehensive list of supplements that I will need to take and also things to avoid whilst taking it . I 'm rather concerned about the toxicity of Met. and want to do everything possible to flush those out of the system and keep the liver/kidneys healthy

I'll post you when I find out!!

- - how are you feeling on Met. and have you lost any weight?

D xx

NYbird · 10-19-2004, 06:10 AM

Hi Diana,

That sounds like a really good plan. Have you heard of Zita West? She's a private practise midwife in London that I'm seeing now in conjunction with my IVF treatment. There is a nutritionist on staff and she's got me on a detox now that is supposed to cleanse my liver after all my many months of fertility treatment. A Milk Thistle tincture is part of it. I'm only on Day 3, but so far so good! She's recommended two shops to me to get supplies. One is The NutriCentre in London, and the other is Herbs Hands Healing (not sure of the location but they are online and do mail order.

As for met, I've only just started losing weight when my dr increased me to 2250mg. Before that, I've been on it at 1500mg since Sept 2002 and hadn't really lost any weight. My current weight loss has been slow (started in July), but as of today, I have officially lost 1 stone.

Very exciting!

How long are you ttc?

cheers
jen x

DianaSophie · 10-19-2004, 06:22 AM

Jen - what a small world!!

I live in London and was also seeing Melanie Brown, the nutritionist (same as you I presume?) I haven't seen her for a while though. I was trying to treat myself naturally whilst not being on any meds. with her help. However after having only had one period since February and feeling fed up with not being able to lose weight even though i'm starving myself I've decided to try Met.

Perhaps you can ask her about combining Met. with Milk Thistle? she may well know...

Did you go to the Verity PCOS conference a few weeks ago? I was there!

Diana

DianaSophie · 10-19-2004, 06:23 AM

PS> I am not trying to conceive at the momement ( I am single) but would like to be normal and fertile anyway... just in case for the future...

I wish you all the best with your efforts x

DancesWithTubas · 11-19-2004, 09:51 AM

On the ongoing Milk Thistle issue-

The ONLY thing I could find on the subject was an interaction warning on a website selling Milk Thistle:

"Drug Interactions:
Use of milk thistle extract may lower blood glucose levels in diabetics and interfere with existing hypo- or hyperglycemia therapy, therefore careful monitoring of blood glucose levels is required in these cases. Hypoglycemic drugs include: insulin, Glucophage(R) metformin, DiaBeta(R) Glynase(R) glyburide, Glucotrol(R) glipizide). "Milk Thistle So, apparently it may not be the best of things. I was reading some other websites and I read some woman's site who was taking both met and Milk Thistle with no perceivable problems, but I would rather be safe than sorry. I'm gonna call my doc and see what he says...I'm especially curious because I just started met but I've been taking a supplement with milk thistle in it for months, so...

HTH. Let me know if anyone else figures this out!

-Dances

DianaSophie · 11-19-2004, 10:13 AM

Hey, thanks for getting back on that one. I've heard Met. can be rather toxic, and it would be good to take a supplement which helps cleanse the liver... I wonder if there are any alternatives to Milk Thistle - perhaps Nettle? I'll let you know if I find any more out

D x

hoping4help · 12-28-2004, 02:12 AM

This article shocked me.
When I got a full CT/intra/outer-vaginal ultrasound/abdominal CT back in March of this year, it showed I had a "fatty liver", and I rarely, if ever drink.

Forgive me if I haven't read the whole article, but is a fatty liver a coincidence with women who have PCOS?

I'm telling y'all, this new obgyn seems like he knows what he is doing. I can't tell you how much I am so glad I found this board!

I did read the article a bit (I'm tired wah wah lol), and it's funny because almost ALL of my labwork HAS come back 'normal'---yeah right uh. I don't think I have ever had just a plain ole androgen lab drawn, BUT I did have a high testoterone count a while back.

Anyway, bear with me, this site, yes, again, looks like there's so much info to go through in more than a week! I want to jump in so fast learn so fast and support, etc. Desperate ain't I

lol
Thanks, and I pray to God that I have finally found some people I can relate to. That in itself is a HUGE blessing right now.

Have a good day/night whatever the case may be.

SeattleKnitChick · 01-07-2005, 03:51 AM

I have read these messages with much interest due to the fact that I HAD to be taken off met due to elevated liver enzymes... I know others who have had the same experience as well. I personally am frusturated by the situation as I had to switch to actos which has caused some weight gain and not helped to make me as regular menstural wise as I had hoped it would!

I had liver enzyme tests done before starting met... they were normal. As I took met and increased the dosage over about two years the enzymes kept getting more elevated. When I got up to 2000mg of met they were so elevated the liver doc and the endo wanted me to stop the met - BUT they were telling me that the elevated enzymes were due to fatty liver and my weight.

I stopped the met and the enzymes went back to normal after 6-8 mos... I still have fatty liver.

go figure!

Gemmeus · 01-19-2005, 01:07 AM

My first week on Met I would drag myself out of bed, literally. I felt like my whole body with being weighed down with stones. I was moody, irritable, I couldn't concentrate in class and had a hard time with the course-work which just made it worse. I was constantly tired and all I wanted to do, ever, was sleep.

I figured this depression had to do with the met but didn't want to stop it.

My mom, seeing my sorry state, gave me Regeon. A herbal sedative marketed in Israel containing passion flower extract, traces of other things, but most importantly ... hops.

Yes Hops, the stuff they put in beer to make it flavorful (I think), apparently has some natural relaxing properties which work wonders on this particular nasty side effect.

I'm going to continue taking it, and at one point (after finals) shall go consult my lovely physician and get some blood tests done to see if it's affected anything else.

But I've lost about 3 kilo's in one month without exercising (no time, shall after finals) and my sugar cravings are completely gone. I feel like I have control of my appetite again instead of it controlling me. Which is very nice. So I don't think it significantly hampers the met's work, if at all.

Gemmeus · 01-22-2005, 09:48 AM

Anyone know how Gluc and Noni Nectar interact with each other? I couldn't find anything on-line. Noni Nectar claims to reduce blood sugar, improve metabolism and clean your kitchen floor without any waxy build up.

I'm gonna start tonight, if there are any adverse effects you guys will be the ... fourth or fifth to know.

chikilala · 03-07-2005, 05:36 PM

So, since I have both hypothyroidism (so far not caused by autoimmune problems), and PCOS plus very low lh and fsh (being supplemented by a separate dose of estrogen and prometrium), I should avoid iron supplements? I didn't realize it also affected the thyroid, too. I know lots of foods are now supplemented with iron, so basically one should avoid the extra iron if in my situ? But the folic acid should be supplemented?

Also, with the calcium supplement, can you take it at the same time as the met, or does it affect it? I know you can't take calcium with synthroid because it affects absorption, so do you take the calcium later?

If the above is true about the iron, I guess I will be taking a trip to trader joe's. However, I have been taking acidophilus with FOS and an omega 3 fatty acid supplement. Does that have any affect? I don't want to stop the acidophilus because I am terribly lactose intolerant and am on antibiotics for a sinus infection. I am taking a multivitamin as well, but then does that mean extra b12 too? Should I just move into a GNC?

I think I am confused. LOL

04-29-2004, 11:17 AM	#46 (permalink)
Cher Proud mommy of two! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 582 Points: 741.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 741.00 Donate	Noraml blood sugars Hi guys, I'm still a bit confused. I've been taking my blood sugar every day for 3 days now and have never had even one reading that was high or low. Even after purposlly eating a high sugar meal to see what would happen. Yet my dr says I am insulin resistant and need metformin. How can that be if all blood glucose readings are normal? Any info would be appreciated, thanks Cheryl

04-29-2004, 07:52 PM	#47 (permalink)
nobimbo Google Junkie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 3,414 Points: 101,005.93 Bank: 18,549.71 Total Points: 119,555.64 Donate	Blood sugar readings can be normal even if insulin levels are high. That is why it is so important to have both a fasting blood sugar and fasting insulin test, followed by a GGT if there are questionable results. If you are insulin resistant with normal blood sugar levels, it is only a matter of time before the bs levels rise as well. You are lucky to have caught this early. Linda __________________ dx pcos 1984, type II diabetes 2001, also hypertension Met 2000mg since 2001, started Glucophage XR 4/22/04, then switched to Met ER 6/04; also: multi, Vit. C, Vit. E, B12/folic acid combo, fish oil & borage oil combo, garlic capsules, cinnamon, Vitex, calcium with magnesium/zinc, biotin, CoQ10, selenium,iron Other meds: Verapamil and Altace(for blood pressure) Started laser hair removal 7/29/03, completed 3/04 (it works!) UAE for fibroid 3/24/03 and 3/16/04

10-15-2004, 11:03 AM	#48 (permalink)
DianaSophie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 37 Points: 1,415.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,415.18 Donate	milk thistle to protect liver from Met? I am planning on taking Milk Thistle to protect the liver from the toxicity of Met. However, someone has mentioned that Milk Thistle should not be used? does anyone know more about this? thanks __________________ Diana :-) hair loss and male-pattern balding weight gain lack of energy

10-18-2004, 04:47 PM	#49 (permalink)
NYbird Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: an American in England Posts: 352 Points: 893.48 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 893.48 Donate	diana, I'd love to know about this too. I can't find anything definitive online anywhere... if you find anything, can you let me know? cheers jen x __________________ me(37) dh(33) - pcos: the works, no AF, excess hair, weight - 4 years TTC: took 2 tamoxifen cycles, 9 clomid cycles, many IUI and 2 IVFs to have our beautiful 2 year old daughter - going for no 2: IVF begins today! - 17 Feb: sniffing synarel - 2 Mar: downreg scan and start stim - 7 Mar: 1st scan - 17 Mar: est collection - 19 Mar: est transfer

10-19-2004, 05:55 AM	#50 (permalink)
DianaSophie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 37 Points: 1,415.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,415.18 Donate	Jen I'm going to start Metformin in a few months time (when the Endo. sees that i haven't had a period in months). I want to find a comprehensive list of supplements that I will need to take and also things to avoid whilst taking it . I 'm rather concerned about the toxicity of Met. and want to do everything possible to flush those out of the system and keep the liver/kidneys healthy I'll post you when I find out!! - - how are you feeling on Met. and have you lost any weight? D xx __________________ Diana :-) hair loss and male-pattern balding weight gain lack of energy

10-19-2004, 06:10 AM	#51 (permalink)
NYbird Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: an American in England Posts: 352 Points: 893.48 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 893.48 Donate	Hi Diana, That sounds like a really good plan. Have you heard of Zita West? She's a private practise midwife in London that I'm seeing now in conjunction with my IVF treatment. There is a nutritionist on staff and she's got me on a detox now that is supposed to cleanse my liver after all my many months of fertility treatment. A Milk Thistle tincture is part of it. I'm only on Day 3, but so far so good! She's recommended two shops to me to get supplies. One is The NutriCentre in London, and the other is Herbs Hands Healing (not sure of the location but they are online and do mail order. As for met, I've only just started losing weight when my dr increased me to 2250mg. Before that, I've been on it at 1500mg since Sept 2002 and hadn't really lost any weight. My current weight loss has been slow (started in July), but as of today, I have officially lost 1 stone. Very exciting! How long are you ttc? cheers jen x __________________ me(37) dh(33) - pcos: the works, no AF, excess hair, weight - 4 years TTC: took 2 tamoxifen cycles, 9 clomid cycles, many IUI and 2 IVFs to have our beautiful 2 year old daughter - going for no 2: IVF begins today! - 17 Feb: sniffing synarel - 2 Mar: downreg scan and start stim - 7 Mar: 1st scan - 17 Mar: est collection - 19 Mar: est transfer

10-19-2004, 06:22 AM	#52 (permalink)
DianaSophie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 37 Points: 1,415.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,415.18 Donate	Jen - what a small world!! I live in London and was also seeing Melanie Brown, the nutritionist (same as you I presume?) I haven't seen her for a while though. I was trying to treat myself naturally whilst not being on any meds. with her help. However after having only had one period since February and feeling fed up with not being able to lose weight even though i'm starving myself I've decided to try Met. Perhaps you can ask her about combining Met. with Milk Thistle? she may well know... Did you go to the Verity PCOS conference a few weeks ago? I was there! Diana __________________ Diana :-) hair loss and male-pattern balding weight gain lack of energy

10-19-2004, 06:23 AM	#53 (permalink)
DianaSophie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 37 Points: 1,415.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,415.18 Donate	PS> I am not trying to conceive at the momement ( I am single) but would like to be normal and fertile anyway... just in case for the future... I wish you all the best with your efforts x __________________ Diana :-) hair loss and male-pattern balding weight gain lack of energy

11-19-2004, 09:51 AM	#54 (permalink)
DancesWithTubas Guinea Pig Lovin' Cyster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 214 My Mood: Points: 1,014.64 Bank: 2,286.82 Total Points: 3,301.46 Donate	On the ongoing Milk Thistle issue- The ONLY thing I could find on the subject was an interaction warning on a website selling Milk Thistle: "Drug Interactions: Use of milk thistle extract may lower blood glucose levels in diabetics and interfere with existing hypo- or hyperglycemia therapy, therefore careful monitoring of blood glucose levels is required in these cases. Hypoglycemic drugs include: insulin, Glucophage(R) metformin, DiaBeta(R) Glynase(R) glyburide, Glucotrol(R) glipizide). "Milk Thistle So, apparently it may not be the best of things. I was reading some other websites and I read some woman's site who was taking both met and Milk Thistle with no perceivable problems, but I would rather be safe than sorry. I'm gonna call my doc and see what he says...I'm especially curious because I just started met but I've been taking a supplement with milk thistle in it for months, so... HTH. Let me know if anyone else figures this out! -Dances __________________ Guildenstern: You can't not be on a boat. Rosencrantz: I've frequently not been on boats. Guildenstern: No, no... What you've been is not on boats. -"Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" "My school colors were clear. We used to say, "I'm not naked, I'm in the band.'"-Steven Wright

11-19-2004, 10:13 AM	#55 (permalink)
DianaSophie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 37 Points: 1,415.18 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,415.18 Donate	Hey, thanks for getting back on that one. I've heard Met. can be rather toxic, and it would be good to take a supplement which helps cleanse the liver... I wonder if there are any alternatives to Milk Thistle - perhaps Nettle? I'll let you know if I find any more out D x __________________ Diana :-) hair loss and male-pattern balding weight gain lack of energy

12-28-2004, 02:12 AM	#56 (permalink)
hoping4help Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 493 Points: 4,301.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 4,301.00 Donate	Holy you know what! This article shocked me. When I got a full CT/intra/outer-vaginal ultrasound/abdominal CT back in March of this year, it showed I had a "fatty liver", and I rarely, if ever drink. Forgive me if I haven't read the whole article, but is a fatty liver a coincidence with women who have PCOS? I'm telling y'all, this new obgyn seems like he knows what he is doing. I can't tell you how much I am so glad I found this board! I did read the article a bit (I'm tired wah wah lol), and it's funny because almost ALL of my labwork HAS come back 'normal'---yeah right uh. I don't think I have ever had just a plain ole androgen lab drawn, BUT I did have a high testoterone count a while back. Anyway, bear with me, this site, yes, again, looks like there's so much info to go through in more than a week! I want to jump in so fast learn so fast and support, etc. Desperate ain't I lol Thanks, and I pray to God that I have finally found some people I can relate to. That in itself is a HUGE blessing right now. Have a good day/night whatever the case may be.

01-07-2005, 03:51 AM	#57 (permalink)
SeattleKnitChick Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 86 My Mood: Points: 1,992.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,992.30 Donate	I have read these messages with much interest due to the fact that I HAD to be taken off met due to elevated liver enzymes... I know others who have had the same experience as well. I personally am frusturated by the situation as I had to switch to actos which has caused some weight gain and not helped to make me as regular menstural wise as I had hoped it would! I had liver enzyme tests done before starting met... they were normal. As I took met and increased the dosage over about two years the enzymes kept getting more elevated. When I got up to 2000mg of met they were so elevated the liver doc and the endo wanted me to stop the met - BUT they were telling me that the elevated enzymes were due to fatty liver and my weight. I stopped the met and the enzymes went back to normal after 6-8 mos... I still have fatty liver. go figure! __________________ Jennifer in Seattle Currently taking Actos, Armour, Byetta and a bunch of topical acne medications!

01-19-2005, 01:07 AM	#58 (permalink)
Gemmeus Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Israel Posts: 23 Points: 117.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 117.00 Donate	Met and Hops My first week on Met I would drag myself out of bed, literally. I felt like my whole body with being weighed down with stones. I was moody, irritable, I couldn't concentrate in class and had a hard time with the course-work which just made it worse. I was constantly tired and all I wanted to do, ever, was sleep. I figured this depression had to do with the met but didn't want to stop it. My mom, seeing my sorry state, gave me Regeon. A herbal sedative marketed in Israel containing passion flower extract, traces of other things, but most importantly ... hops. Yes Hops, the stuff they put in beer to make it flavorful (I think), apparently has some natural relaxing properties which work wonders on this particular nasty side effect. I'm going to continue taking it, and at one point (after finals) shall go consult my lovely physician and get some blood tests done to see if it's affected anything else. But I've lost about 3 kilo's in one month without exercising (no time, shall after finals) and my sugar cravings are completely gone. I feel like I have control of my appetite again instead of it controlling me. Which is very nice. So I don't think it significantly hampers the met's work, if at all.

01-22-2005, 09:48 AM	#59 (permalink)
Gemmeus Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Israel Posts: 23 Points: 117.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 117.00 Donate	Noni Nectar Anyone know how Gluc and Noni Nectar interact with each other? I couldn't find anything on-line. Noni Nectar claims to reduce blood sugar, improve metabolism and clean your kitchen floor without any waxy build up. I'm gonna start tonight, if there are any adverse effects you guys will be the ... fourth or fifth to know.

03-07-2005, 05:36 PM	#60 (permalink)
chikilala Hypochondriacs Anonymous Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 150 Points: 5,178.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 5,178.00 Donate	Iron is naughty? Met and calcium...... So, since I have both hypothyroidism (so far not caused by autoimmune problems), and PCOS plus very low lh and fsh (being supplemented by a separate dose of estrogen and prometrium), I should avoid iron supplements? I didn't realize it also affected the thyroid, too. I know lots of foods are now supplemented with iron, so basically one should avoid the extra iron if in my situ? But the folic acid should be supplemented? Also, with the calcium supplement, can you take it at the same time as the met, or does it affect it? I know you can't take calcium with synthroid because it affects absorption, so do you take the calcium later? If the above is true about the iron, I guess I will be taking a trip to trader joe's. However, I have been taking acidophilus with FOS and an omega 3 fatty acid supplement. Does that have any affect? I don't want to stop the acidophilus because I am terribly lactose intolerant and am on antibiotics for a sinus infection. I am taking a multivitamin as well, but then does that mean extra b12 too? Should I just move into a GNC? I think I am confused. LOL

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