Normal TSH but still hypothyroid?

katiwren · 02-05-2003, 12:46 PM

Can you have a normal TSH and still be hypothyroid? According to my GP, I have no thyroid problems because my TSH was 2.16.

Also, if you are hypothyroid, do your temps still respond with a rise post-O?

I have a number of hypothyroid symptoms, a low bbt and a CM pattern of mostly creamy and EW (almost never a dry day). (Sorry if TMI) In Taking Charge of Your Fertility, this is listed as a possible symptom of hypothyroidism.

Any advice/opinions?

TIA.

--KT

JessicaE · 02-05-2003, 02:22 PM

Hi KT!

TSH is a pretty sensitive tool for measuring thyroid disease. However, it might be helpful to also get your thyroid antibodies, T3 and T4 tested if you're concerned. Especially with the antibodies, your TSH can be normal but something else isn't right.

Those who are hypothyroid still show a BBT rise after O. However, hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism can prevent ovulation.

Good luck!

katiwren · 02-05-2003, 02:37 PM

Thanks Jessica.

I think you know my disappointing non-O story this cycle. I think I'm still hunting for explanations for the temps.

A while back I developed this funny lump kind of thing in my throat (thyroid region). I started taking a kelp supplement daily (for iodine) and after a while it went away. It comes back periodically, when I haven't been taking my kelp. Well, it's back today and that got me thinking. I haven't taken the kelp since Friday (I'm stupid I guess) and I wondered if that could explain the lower temps.

I know. I'm totally clutching at straws. But I did have the +OPK, EWCM changed to CCM, and my bbs are now enough bigger that DH noticed on his own. (He normally wouldn't notice if I died my hair purple!) I just don't understand how that can be if I didn't O.

--KT

bananasmom · 02-05-2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

a CM pattern of mostly creamy and EW

I can't answer your temping question. We got pregnant so easily the first time (before thyroid diagnosis), and I don't have a lot of experience with my own cycle. It's unbelievably hard to temp with a baby in the house.

I can say that I have the same CM thing... it's like EW nearly all the time. Even the day that I got my (annovulatory???) period. That can mean that my ovaries are trying to ovulate and can't. I was at TSH 112, and am down to 2.64. I'd like my doc to get me down to somewhere between 1-2.

Anyhow, I have read that some doctors find a TSH between 1-2 is best for achieving and maintaining a pregnancy. I can't find out any information as to why (I'll post again if I figure this out, I'm looking for myself too). I'm not sure if it's an ovulation question or a sustaining the fetus question.

Some also find that fertility can be effected by anti-thyroid antibodies. Again, I'm not sure if it's ovulation or sustaining.

In any case, perhaps your doctor should order a thyroid antibody test and Free T3 and T4 tests, that may give him/her a better picture (like Jessica suggested). It will certainly give you both more information.

Maybe this will help:
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa111097.htm

HTH!

katiwren · 02-05-2003, 07:27 PM

Thanks, but I could only pray for any further tests from my doc. I had to basically beg for the TSH. Oh well.

Maybe if all of my other tests (oestrogen, LH, FSH, progesterone, testosterone) come back perfect I could talk my gynae into chasing it up next year.

--KT

cdcm · 02-06-2003, 06:26 PM

Hi... My TSH was "normal" too. about 2.25 if I'm remembering correctly. I'm not hypothyroid... I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (excessive thyroid antibodies). You feel just as awful. I'm on med's now... my TSH has dropped to about 1.1... and I feel mucho better! DEMAND the antibody test...

katiwren · 02-06-2003, 06:29 PM

Cdcm,

Can you give me any further info? How did you feel before diagnosis? What were the symptoms?

I'll do some research on this myself, but I just want a personal "how it was for me" too, if that's OK.

What meds are you on?

TIA.

--KT

cdcm · 02-06-2003, 06:57 PM

Hi KT,

Jeez... let's see. FATIGUE I've been chronically exhausted for as long as I can remember. My mother started taking me to see the Doc around age 15. I was told to cut back on activites... Does that make since at that age???

I used to be a ballet dancer... LOTS of working out so I was always thin as a kid... periods were pretty regular too.

WEIGHT - When I started college and quit dancing wieght just started flying on. I gained about 20 lbs in college. Since I started out "skinny" that wasn't terrible. Unfortunately the wieght gain hasn't stopped. I'm 170 now! This is devisating to a former dancer. Oh... and I carry my wieght in my tummy (IR?)

HAIR - I started to go grey at 15 as well... almost totally grey now (I'm 31). . My hair is more course than when I was younger, and more textured now... I have to color. and use lots of conditioner & other product... to keep it looking "soft"... I've noticed less hair in the tub and on the bathroom floor since I've been taking Meds... but I'm Italian... I have a lot of hair to start with...

SKIN - I used to have very clear skin... and now have to use ProActive to keep my skin looking decent. Skin started getting wierd patchyness to it under and around breasts... mostly clear now that i'm on meds. Skin more dry than normal.

CYCLE - My periods are totally erractic (PCOS & OR Hashi's... who knows...)

DEPRESSION - common to thyroid patients... I've been treated for depression... very down, yet high anxiety. (would also suffer from extreme heart palaptations) Depression meds would work for about 1 month... then were useless.

THYROID GLAND - mine was about 2.5x larger than normal... iIf i dropped my head back... I could see it in the mirror..it's close to a normal size now with meds..

The thing about hashi's is that you produce antibodies that actually attack your thyroid gland. My PCP was origanly happy to monitor it and wait for total thyroid failure... eventually the gland will lose the battle (Your thyroid actually grows in responce to the attack... allowing you to produce a "normal" amout of TSH) That seemed like a rediculous plan to me... That's like waiting for a heart attack to come on before you change your life style and you KNOW you're at EXTREME risk.

Taking meds allows your thyroid a break... and also allows for the rest of your bodies functions to perform better. Healthy looking hair for example isn't necessary to survival... but it's an indicator that things are going right in your body.

PCOS symptoms and Hashi's symptoms... are virtually identical... and I have them both... I haven't found anything that states for sure that one causes the other... but there must be a serious link.

Hope that helps... let me know if you have more quesitons...

Oh yeah... I take 75 mcg Levoxyl, 5 mcg Cytomel, on baby aspirin in the evening. and pre-natal vitamins...

I'm still on the quest for the "perfect cocktail" so that I can feel my best AND get pregnant! But I do feel better and I have hope for the future...

katiwren · 02-06-2003, 07:05 PM

OK. I've done a bit of reading and thinking. I'm gonna go back to my evil GP and see what can be done.

My bbt has dropped even lower over the last few years (as can be seen by the 2001 chart and this one both available on my FF page). It's now normally well below 97 F.

I keep getting this lump thing. It actually feels kinda like I have a collar that's too tight, only I get it even when I'm not wearing a collar.

Skin, hair, cycles? Well, I have PCOS, so it's hard to judge there.

Fatigue? Oh yes. I feel like I'm tired all the time.

The other reason I think it must all be thyroid related is that I do feel better (and the lump in throat thing goes away) when I take kelp supplements for iodine.

Now I just have to get my GP to listen.

So, you think I need a thyroid antibody test, right? Anything else you'd advise? All I've had so far (thyroid related) is TSH.

Thanks so much!

--KT

cdcm · 02-06-2003, 09:00 PM

Hey there,

Be careful with Iodine... thyroid problems due to lack of iodine are nearly impossilbe to have in the United States... you don't want extra...

check out the thyroid site on about.com You will find out a lot of information.

A sub-normal temp is very common with thyroid problems... are you cold all the time? That's another symptom...

Also, be prepared for you doctor to poo-poo the idea of antibodies... most just don't think it's a real issue.
It's important that you doctor take into consideration how you feel... and not just what numbers say on a blood test...

Try to get a referal to an Endo... they USUALLY know better..

Good luck...

katiwren · 02-07-2003, 06:31 AM

cdcm,

I'm not in the US. I only started the iodine after having funny salt cravings (I normally never add salt to food and rarely like salt) that didn't go away with salt. I then realised that the salt sold here (at least at my supermarket) isn't iodised. That's when I decided to try iodine supplements. It really does seem to help somewhat, at least with the icky lump in throat feeling.

I'm not necessarily cold all the time. I actually seem to have a very unsteady thermostat. One minute I'm feezing and the next I'm too hot, but the environment is the same and I haven't changed my clothes or activity level.

A referral to an endo could well take ages. I've been kinda asking for one for ages, but getting nowhere. I'll try again with my GP.

Thanks again.

--KT

cdcm · 02-07-2003, 02:22 PM

... and if I would have read the little blurb next to your name I would have realized that... hehehehe

Then perhaps you are missing out on iodine.. I'm not sure... It was my impression that most developed countries don't have this problem... definately worth looking into and watching.

I have the same problem with freezing to death one minute and then breaking out in a sweat the next minute... No idea what that is... I always thought it was more hormone related... like a mini version of hot flashes...

Anyhow, best wishes to you...