NPC/Cycle Question - Help Needed

lexibelle · 06-23-2008, 08:51 PM

I've got two questions and am hoping that some of the ladies with NPC experience can help.

1) Last cycle (which lasted 150+ days) I finally got fed up and decided to try NPC. I got a bottle and was using 1/4 tsp twice daily. I continued this usage for about 5 days. Around day 5 I started spotting and within the next 48hrs had what I'd consider to be a full-blown AF. It wasn't exceptionally heavy, but definitely enough to indicate the start of a cycle. My question is - why did this happen and could I have messed anything up by stopping the NPC when the bleeding became heavy?

2) I'm now on CD33 or so and for up until yesterday experienced about a week's worth of spotting. Sometimes it was heavy enough that I needed a pad, but only to keep things clean, if that makes sense. The only time it only really showed was when I wiped (sorry if TMI). Should I consider that the start of a new cycle or should I consider it another case of mid-cycle spotting and start my planned round of NPC?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but I'm really desperate to find some sort of answers. My DH and I are TTC, but it's REALLY hard when I can't figure out what my cycle is doing or where I'm at in it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

NYER · 06-23-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexibelle

I've got two questions and am hoping that some of the ladies with NPC experience can help.

1) Last cycle (which lasted 150+ days) I finally got fed up and decided to try NPC. I got a bottle and was using 1/4 tsp twice daily. I continued this usage for about 5 days. Around day 5 I started spotting and within the next 48hrs had what I'd consider to be a full-blown AF. It wasn't exceptionally heavy, but definitely enough to indicate the start of a cycle. My question is - why did this happen and could I have messed anything up by stopping the NPC when the bleeding became heavy?

Nope, didn't mess anything up. It's pretty safe to assume that if you get AF while on NPC, that you're not pg. BUT, some women can rarely bleed (and often spot) when pg, so it's always a very good idea to use a sensitive HPT before stopping NPC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexibelle

2) I'm now on CD33 or so and for up until yesterday experienced about a week's worth of spotting. Sometimes it was heavy enough that I needed a pad, but only to keep things clean, if that makes sense. The only time it only really showed was when I wiped (sorry if TMI). Should I consider that the start of a new cycle or should I consider it another case of mid-cycle spotting and start my planned round of NPC?

If it was only spotting, then I'd do the NPC for a week or more. If you are not sure if you ovulated or not, you might want to hpt - spotting can occur during pgy too. Do you do OPK's, or chart? When you're going from anovulation or very long cycles to using NPC, it really is important to chart & do OPK's so you see a regular trend of ovulation. It's can be hard to paper chart, so something like fertility friend or TCOYF software (which I personally use) is a big help. The OPK's to get an idea of what cycle day you normally get a surge (best odds to get pg are dtd the 3 days before ovulation) and the charting to confirm you did ovulate & not a premature LH surge, and when to start your NPC. You will also have a much better idea if you have a normal length luteal phase too!

melkrist · 06-24-2008, 02:40 AM

I think your week long spotting could have been a period. Since I've been on NPC my periods have been much less heavy than before. I rarely ever get anything on my pad other than a few spots. Most of my period is just when I first wipe. For 'normal' women, doctors say that they only shed around 2 tablespoons of blood and fluid. So maybe it was actually a period.

lexibelle · 06-24-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYER

Nope, didn't mess anything up. It's pretty safe to assume that if you get AF while on NPC, that you're not pg. BUT, some women can rarely bleed (and often spot) when pg, so it's always a very good idea to use a sensitive HPT before stopping NPC.

If it was only spotting, then I'd do the NPC for a week or more. If you are not sure if you ovulated or not, you might want to hpt - spotting can occur during pgy too. Do you do OPK's, or chart? When you're going from anovulation or very long cycles to using NPC, it really is important to chart & do OPK's so you see a regular trend of ovulation. It's can be hard to paper chart, so something like fertility friend or TCOYF software (which I personally use) is a big help. The OPK's to get an idea of what cycle day you normally get a surge (best odds to get pg are dtd the 3 days before ovulation) and the charting to confirm you did ovulate & not a premature LH surge, and when to start your NPC. You will also have a much better idea if you have a normal length luteal phase too!

I did take an HPT before I started the NPC at the end of my last cycle, and obviously a BFN. I guess what worried me was the fact that I started bleeding after only 5 days. I thought that the withdrawal from the NPC is what was supposed to trigger AF, not just being on it. I could have the hormonal chemistry mixed up, but that's how I thought it worked. Makes me wonder why I started bleeding and if it signifies anything.

I do chart, however since this was my first cycle after close to 6mo without one, I didn't want to waste the $ on OPK's - especially knowing that the previous two cycles were annovulatory. I also didn't bother temping because I *thought* it'd be straight forward and at about CD30 I'd test and start the NPC because AF would be nowhere in sight.

Of course she didn't cooperate.

If there was any tissue discharge with the spotting, would you still think it'd qualify as mid-cycle spotting or something of that sort? Or does that automatically classify things as AF? Just looking for opinions here

I know we're not doctors, but I've been hitting my head against a wall for a week!

Quote:

Originally Posted by melkrist

I think your week long spotting could have been a period. Since I've been on NPC my periods have been much less heavy than before. I rarely ever get anything on my pad other than a few spots. Most of my period is just when I first wipe. For 'normal' women, doctors say that they only shed around 2 tablespoons of blood and fluid. So maybe it was actually a period.

Hmm ... that does sound like what happened to me, but what's confusing me is the fact that I haven't been on the NPC for a full cycle yet. As above, 5 days into it I started with a normal flow and stopped because I figured that was the wisest decision. I'd be amazed if the NPC managed to trigger a 'normal' cycle after such a shortened course. Definitely not upset, but really really surprised.

Indicator lights would really make this less of a guessing game. :|

Thank you both for your replies - I really appreciate them.

The last time I tried this I didn't get any feedback whatsoever. :\

NYER · 06-24-2008, 09:50 PM

Lexibelle,

It's really hard to take an educated guess. I do start bleeding before stopping NPC. For some people NPC is just not strong enough to keep AF away. Rx progesterone is another story.

The bleeding was odd, but it's not the first time I've heard that. Strange things can happen during a shutdown. The only reason I thought it probably wasn't AF is because your previous cycle had full flow AF - is that your normal pattern? Regardless, it kind of doesn't matter. You are creating a new pattern - wiping the slate clean per se, and forcing a new pattern of cycles. So as long as you continue the shutdown the same way for a couple cycles, and then use OPK's and/or charting to see when/if you ovulate in order to use NPC after ovulation in the proper way (3dpo) to start normalizing your cycle, then it should all work out in the end. I wouldn't worry about what happens in-between.

If you need any more help, don't hesitate to ask & keep updating on your progress.

NYER · 06-24-2008, 10:03 PM

Also, if you can, read this:
http://www.westonaprice.org/women/fertility.html
Scroll down to "night lighting"

I am a big proponent of lunar therapy (forcing ovulation through elimination of night lighting during sleep). After my last m/c, no amount of NPC managed to get me to ovulate (I didn't do a shutdown however). After 9 cycles of no O, I finally did the lunar therapy and ovulated the first month. I now practice it all month, and can determine exactly what day I will ovulate by the day I introduce light.

melkrist · 06-25-2008, 12:40 PM

Thanks for posting that article. I find it's information very interesting. I'm a TV sleeper, meaning that I most often go to sleep with the TV on. It would take some time to get used to being without it, but it would be well worth it if it helped me to keep my cycle regular and to acheive and sustain a successful pregnancy.

NYER · 06-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melkrist

Thanks for posting that article. I find it's information very interesting. I'm a TV sleeper, meaning that I most often go to sleep with the TV on. It would take some time to get used to being without it, but it would be well worth it if it helped me to keep my cycle regular and to acheive and sustain a successful pregnancy.

That's what got me in trouble in the first place, but I didn't realize it for awhile. We moved into a new house, my husband works nights...I started getting a little spooked being in a new house alone and started leaving the television on or lights on. Yup the tv is really, really bad. Worse then all the other lite sources such as clock, etc. Try getting a fan for white noise. It might make it a little easier having background noise.

lexibelle · 07-05-2008, 02:17 AM

Thank you for the information, but once again I find myself confused.

I started spotting over 2 weeks ago and have since had one day without any that was really noticeable. Finally, fed up, I decided to use the NPC assuming that it might stop the spotting until I stopped using the cream.

Yeah, apparently that's not how my body is working. I'm on day 6 of the cream (using about 1/4tsp 2x's a day) and STILL spotting with more tissue discharge. Now today the spotting seems a little heavier, but still not enough to require protection aside from my normal pantyliner.

Should I stop the NPC (again) or should I tough it out for the 14 days and see what happens? I don't really mind continuing with it, but I just want to know that it's actually doing what I need it to, y'know? I'm having a hell of a time finding any information about people who've had spotting/lining clumps WHILE using the NPC.

I have tested and know I'm not pregnant. I don't have insurance so going to a doctor for this right now isn't in the cards. I just need some advice to help me get to some state of normalcy. Once again I find myself thoroughly confused as I was under the impression that an increase in progesterone was supposed to halt bleeding.

Thanks in advance for any help.

NYER · 07-06-2008, 10:37 AM

Lexi,

Are you still taking the "slimquick" listed in your siggie? I looked up the ingredients, and this may be why you are having a strange experience with NPC/wonky cycles. Ingredients:

SLIMQUICK uses 6 formula complexes: Cyclovite, a vitamin & mineral complex, Nutratherm, designed to increase thermagenesis and metabolic rate, Estrotim, a hormone-balancing complex; Cortifem, aimed to reduce levels of stress related hormones; Aquaplex, to reduce water retention; and Xtend , designed to improve nutrient absorption.

Included in these complexes are Green Tea Extract, Yerba Mate Extract, Clary Sage Extract, Cocoa Bean Extract, Dandelion Leaf and Root Extract, Horsetail Extract, Uva Ursi Extract, caffeine and soy isoflavones. The vitamin and mineral complex includes vitamins D, B-12 & B-6, folic acid and calcium.

The soy isoflavones & "estrotim" (whatever that is) may be screwing things up. Soy protein/isoflavones shouldn't be taken except in the method that is being used for a five days in follicular phase. Some women do report strange spotting after soy even in that context. Soy can mess with your thryoid (except fermented) and prevent ovulation if taken regularly (this is why cutting out processed food which is often loaded with soy can benefit your health & cycles). I don't know what uva ursi extract is either or what a few of the other herbs do.

lexibelle · 07-06-2008, 11:25 PM

*headdesk*

I didn't even realize that one. I knew there was Vitex in the one I take, but totally skipped over it containing soy. I'm going to double-check the bottle I have and if it does have the soy, stop it for a bit and see what happens. Makes me feel a little better because I was totally thinking it had something to do with the NPC by itself or how I was using it.

Kind of sad though - I was enjoying the effects of the SlimQuick ... oh well, back to the herbal drawing board.