comfyfeet

I'm very interested in learning more.
Can anyone recommed any books or sites?
Are ruine stones and tarrot considered pagan or wiccan?

BecStan

I would consider the runes and the tarot occult, belonging to no one denomination of spirituality.

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."
~ Marianne Williamson

PollySis

As Bec says. Divination is divination and different pagans like different things but there's no hard and fast rules.

Runes have heathen connotations. Most pagans use 'heathen' to mean those who follow a Norse/Anglo Saxon style path. Norsies (people who follow the old gods of Scandinavia which are pretty well the same as the gods of Anglo Saxon England, too) will use runes more. That said, pagans of any type will do any type of divination - whatever calls you!

For tarot, you can't do better as an introduction than this series of workshops - you can buy in book form but they're available to download free online:

http://www.learntarot.com/

Learning the Tarot by Joan Bunning

She uses the standard Rider-Waite tarot deck but many other decks are what we call 'Rider Waite clones' and will work just as well with Joan Bunning's course.

A stunning deck for anyone of a wiccan persuasion (and a few of us who aren't) is Will Worthington's Druidcraft Tarot.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards...ex.shtml#cards

Be aware that decks often go out of print never to return so if you love a deck - buy two! I bought a deck the month my last son was born, in June 2002, which was the usual £15 or so. It was only ever printed once, went out of print and is now changing hands for well over £100 on Amazon, etc - after only 5 or so years!

The best tarot website for looking at decks and reviews is:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/

Have a look here before you buy a deck as you can get a feel for what you do and don't like!

As for runes...

Freya Aswynn's book on Northern Mysteries (runes) is a good starting point. I also like Nigel Pennick's Complete Illustrated Guide to the Runes. Edred Thorsson's books are also excellent. The books to avoid are by Ralph Blum who tried to reinvent runes and made it into a frightening hotchpotch of xian psycho babble fluff. The three writers above give you the real thing. Nigel Pennick has a brief but really good section on Anglo Saxon (Northumbrian) runes, which are different from the usual Scandinavian ones.

Hope that's helpful!

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comfyfeet

thanks guys.
I never really understood where the runes and tarrot come from. My mom used them and crystals alot when I was growing up. I once heard her refer to herself as a white witch. Never understood that either.
I have become more curious recently in learning about these things I grew up with. You never realised they are different when you are young :o)
I also never realised how many different sects ( i think thats right ) there where / are to pagamism.

PollySis

Ah comfyfeet categorising pagans is like herding cats - can't be done! We'r e not at war with eachother though - no worries!

Runes come from the earlier (pagan) vikings and here in England, we elaborated it a bit and had our own version. They are angular because they were originally designed to be cut into wood or stone so have to be easy to carve. They were our alphabet - although we used the current one (with a few added letters that have since died out) too. So some early runic inscriptions are just ordinary stuff like *Snorri made me* on a ring, or whatever. But others had magical significance. Partly because only the educated could read or write them, maybe but also because there was a story that Odin - the main god - hung on a tree for 9 days and nights to gain some secret arcane knowledge - runes. So runes were also inscribed on things not just to mark ownership or the maker's name, but also to charge them with magic. When the vikings and anglo saxons converted to xianity, runes were bound to die out, really. Another bit of our old culture robbed out! Even so, they have found runic inscriptions in 'christian' viking burials - largely because in our old religion, we bvelieved that everyone had their own gods - so when this new god, came from the Middle East, they didn't disbelieve in it necessarily, just added it to what they already believed - so for a while you have burials that mix xian and pagan traditions. Often the runic inscription will be turned over or hidden in a grave, as if they are pretending to go through all the xian motions (burying East-West instead of North-South like a pagan), but still with a little message to Odin - in case this new god isn't going to work!

Then when xianity spread and got more of a hold, runes would have been discredited as 'marks of the devil' or 'superstition' some such nonsense. And so we lost our beautiful alphabet.

Tarot cards seem to have started in late medieval Italy and spread throughout Europe. They got to France before they got to England and they probably only got here in the 18thC, probably via romanis. But in the 19thC the English were finally up and running and oddly, the most famous decks in the world are now English ones like Rider-Waite, or Aleister Crowley's Thoth tarot deck. The Rider Waite was the first deck to have both major and minor cards with their own individual illustrations on.

An earlier form of divination are the ogham which are similar to runes and were practiced by English, Welsh and Irish druids - angular lines carved in wood. They'd be 'cast' like runes.

Druidry started in England probably came over here with the Beaker People, and developed into what we now call the Iron Age but was stamped out by the pagan Romans, every last vestige of it really viciously suppressed later by the xian Romans... what we then got was a belief system like the vikings - with gods like Odin, Tyr, Freyr etc but Anglicised names.... druidry was revived in the 18thC by a Welshman, in London, called Iolo Morganwg. William Blake was in the first druid order - he'd have been horrified that one of his poem, 'Jerusalem' is now sung as a hymn in churches!

There you go - potted history of runes and tarot.

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comfyfeet

PollySis thank you so much. You seem to know everything :o)
I try to look things up on the net at work but its all bloked as a non traditional religion - folklore. grrrr

tobisapphos

PollySis, I have a couple questions for you.

I know some Heathens believe you must have Norse ancestry to practice the path. Do some Druids feel the same way?

I ask because I explored Heathenry for a while, but didn't really feel that close to it even though I am part German and Danish. I'm definitely pantheistic, I just can't feel the hard polytheist vibe. Though the mythology is fun.

I ask because I'm becoming more curious about learning more about Druidry, but I'm not Celtic. Just curious.

I've read Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler (fantastic book by the way), what do you recommend insofar as required reading?

Thanks!

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BecStan

I'm not she, nor am I a Druid - however, I've been studying Paganism for over 20 years now.... and I do follow a Celtic (Cornish) Path. I'm also what would be called a "hard-polytheist", meaning that I believe in actual different Gods/esses, not merely various faces of one God/two Gods.

On the topic of Druids vrs. how Heathens feel... The Druids do not feel the same way because no unbroken Druidic lines remained. What was left went very underground, and most is left in mist and mystery.

Remember that your *physical* heritage may not be "Celtic", but that doesn't speak of your Soul, now does it? If that is where your Heart leads you, then you should follow.

These are books I'd recommend:

The Druids (Ancient Peoples and Places Series)
by Stuart Piggott
ISBN: 0500273634

A Brief History of the Druids (Brief History)
by Peter Berresford Ellis
ISBN: 0786709871

The Druid Renaissance: The Voice of Druidry Today
by Philip Carr-Gomm
ISBN: 1855384809

Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions
by Joyce Higginbotham
ISBN: 0738702226

Exploring the Pagan Path: Wisdom from the Elders
by Kristin Madden
ISBN: 1564147886


FOR HISTORICAL INFORMATION:

A History of Pagan Europe
by PRUDENCE JONES
ISBN: 0415158044

Myths and Symbols in Pagan Europe: Early Scandinavian and Celtic Religions
by H. R. Ellis Davidson
ISBN: 0815624417



AND if you end up leaning more towards Celtic Paganism, might I offer these:

The Celtic Spirit : Daily Meditations for the Turning Year
by Caitlin Matthews
ISBN: 0062515381

Kindling the Celtic Spirit : Ancient Traditions to Illumine Your Life Through the Seasons
by Mara Freeman
ISBN: 006251685X

The Mist-Filled Path: Celtic Wisdom for Exiles, Wanderers, and Seekers
by Tom Cowan
ISBN: 1577312112


Hope that helps you! I'm always open to help others along their Journey.

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Married, mother of one son - 11 years old. I'm a SAHM, (former homeschooler). I have PCOS, hypothyroid, Type II Diabetes, and Sjogren's Disease as well. I have a cottage business making handmade soaps, lotions, etc.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."
~ Marianne Williamson

tobisapphos

That's very helpful, thank you!

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knittygritty

Thank you for the book recommendations. I will have to look into some of those also.

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Trinity1974

ooo I'm excited!! This is the first time I've seen this thread!!! Blessed Be all my Pagan Cysters

PollySis

Tobi - what Bec said!

The OBOD course may be an option for you, too.

http://www.druidry.org/modules.php?o...d=8&page_id=46

As for heritage, I think if you have some English/British ancestry you're going to have it all anyway. Here in the NE and also across in the NW of England, we have a lot more Norse blood - also people from certain parts of Scotland, do - but I've known Norsies of Northern English or Scots ancestry and also those from Southern England who may have much less likelihood of having any Norse ancestors! My own view is, you go where you're called. Although I've studied druidry over a few years, and am an ovate with OBOD, I don;t think of myself as 'druid' - it's just a philosophy I enjoy learning about. I'm more of a pantheist - and love all things Anglo Saxon and Norse as I've been studying them since 1980. But there are no set gods I follow. As for 'blood' re druidry, the archaeologists are now able to look at the DNA of bones from all over England of what used to be called 'early Anglo Saxon' times - only to discover they're not genetically Anglo Saxon at all - but British! (ie: Celts).

So anyone from anywhere in the world with a fair bit of English blood is as 'celtic' as the average Welsh or Irish person anyway.

What we now think is that the Anglo Saxons when they came here didn't come in the numbers previously thought and it seems that the native Britons adopted their culture lock stock and barrel so within a couple of generations even the old Pretannic (British) language was lost - but those adopting Anglo Saxon ways were in fact, still largely British, by blood! So you have as much right to druidry, as you have to anything else that has been here, if you have some English heritage. We also think romantically of druidry being 'celtic' ie: Welsh/Irish - in fact it was started in England and spread out to Ireland and Wales. Roman scholars record that the Irish first sent their trainee priests to England but we think of druidry as somehow Irish/'celtic' because druidry survived for hundreds of years in Ireland after it was wiped out here, as their priests cleverly fused it with early xianity so the druid colleges survived into medieval times there. Then although druidry was revived in the 18thC in London - the mainstay of the revival was a Welshman.

In other words - if you have some English ethnicity - you are already 'celtic' as that's what the ancient Britons were. It's another romantic myth that they were chased West into Wales. Nothing of the sort. They stayed put but then bought into Anglo Saxon ways. So you have every right to druidry.

Some branches of my mum's family have lived in this very parish since records began (16thC so likely here much longer than that!) and I'm one of those people who feels extremely rooted in the landscape, so for me my roots and who I am is an important part of what I believe. Generations of our ancestors were forced to be xians - first at the point of a sword, then later by threat - into the late 18thC, people were fined if they didn't attend church and when everyone worked on the land, the landowner - who not only paid your wages and kept you alive, but probably owned the cottage you lived in - would also expect you to be in church. We are lucky to be free now, and make our own decisions about what we believe. Sometimes your blood comes into it - sometimes not. Go where you called and hopefully you'll be called where you belong! If summat doesn't feel right - it's not for you.

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knittygritty

Pollysis, you are such a wealth of knowledge! The Hallowquest cards sound interesting and I have been reading up on OBOD and their course. Thank you for the recommendations. I just finished reading The Spiral Dance by Starhawk, and she seems to focus on the God and Goddess pair. It sounds like from the websites I have read that Druidism focuses less on this duality? I just know that I feel most connected and spiritual when I am immersed in nature and that organized religions have never felt right. In my experience, someone is always trying to tell me what is right instead of allowing me to explore...anyways, rant. I just don't know what avenue of earth based religions will work best for me yet, but I am enjoying the exploration for sure Do you know of any books that are a good start to what Druidism is about? I am very thankful for this thread

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knittygritty

the OBOD website has been very helpful too! there is so much information on it.... www.druidry.com

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BecStan

Here are a few about Druids that I'd recommend:

The Druids (Ancient Peoples and Places Series)
by Stuart Piggott
ISBN: 0500273634

A Brief History of the Druids (Brief History)
by Peter Berresford Ellis
ISBN: 0786709871

The Druid Renaissance: The Voice of Druidry Today
by Philip Carr-Gomm
ISBN: 1855384809

__________________
Married, mother of one son - 11 years old. I'm a SAHM, (former homeschooler). I have PCOS, hypothyroid, Type II Diabetes, and Sjogren's Disease as well. I have a cottage business making handmade soaps, lotions, etc.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."
~ Marianne Williamson