Paganism - Misconceptions Made Clear - Page 4

PollySis · 09-25-2006, 01:25 PM

Hi Georgy

'Paganism''s a very broad term, but it seems to encompass belief systems that are nature-orientated, based on the sovereignty of the land (whichever land you're in), honouring the ancestors, caring about the environment.

'Pagan' also signals what our belief systems are not, eg: the 'big' organised religions like christianity, islam, etc.

Each part of the world has its own 'paganism'. In Europe, it's largely revivalism - what we can reconstruct from what we know about our own native spiritualities, which were in Britain and Eire and much of Europe, stamped out by the late (christian) romans. It's complex as we have had waves of invaders who have imposed their religions on us - often Middle Eastern religions with no basis in our own native cultures. In Aus, N.Z and the US, the indigenous nations had their own belief systems - and in the case of the US., there were probably almost as many different belief systems as nations (over 500?) but all of these could nowadays be called 'paganism' in the sense that they're nature based, indigenous spiritualties.

Of course, in the case of the Australian aborigines, NZ Maoris and Native American nations, these 'pagan' belief systems were also attacked by the incoming culture. Japan also had it's own 'pagan' culture, shintoism, which survived alongside buddhism - fairly obvious why. Lucky the christians didn't get there til the 19thC to try to wipe that culture out!

I recently read this account from a book about the christian 'mission' to the Lapps, in Finland, which is quite horrifying but shows how cultures were sytematically destroyed, especially belief systems. It's from "The Lapps" by Roberto Bosi, written in 1959. This passage recalls the exploits of a missionary in his attempts to convert the "noble savages" to the enlightenment of xianity.

Quote:

"...On 5 March 1854, the new church at Vittangi, no great distance from the anceint centre of Jukkasjarvi, was taken over by Lars Levi Laestadius, a pastor who certainly left his mark. He fired all the converted Lapps of the Torne region, and the forest/village of Vittangi, with his own fierce brand of puritanism, and with the aid of a few disciples, he succeeded in reaching a great many families. But the ancient culture suffered at his hands: before very long he and his followers had largely destroyed the Lapps` cultural and artisitic heritage.
The paraphanalia of the cult, the magic drums, the daggers, vetjer, idols....all were cast into the flames. The old songs were forbidden along with all the old traditional festivals and their games; the feast of Basse/olbmai, whose origin is lost in the mists of time, and the rest...they were all proscribed as springing from the well of perdition and sin.."

Your q begs the question of how do we define paganism and I'm sure there's as many definitions as we have posters on this thread! (And some!) Sometimes it's easier to see it as defining 'what it isn't', rather than what it is.

Usually, (but not always), pagan belief systems come from an oral tradition, so are easier to wipe out. What we are then left with is pagan revivalism, where cultures (including the natuve American ones) must work hard to reconstruct their own, old, true beliefs.

The word 'pagan' comes from a Roman word simply meaning 'rural'. It can be a bit of a loaded word, in some contexts. I don't know much about native American belief systems, and they are so many and varied from the little I do know, it's imposs to generalise. I know the Pawnee had a matriarchial culture, and yet the sun god was very prominent. But generally speaking, I think any nation's pre-christian (or pre-islamic, etc etc) culture could be defined as 'pagan'. Wicca is one of the world's newest and yet also fastest growing belief systems - and yet it all stems from the writings of a retired civil servant in post war England. Here in England, 'witchcraft' is far older than 'wicca'. Druidry was revived around 1717, but has its roots over 2000 years before that. So there are also 'new' branches of paganism, old ones, and revivalist ones.

georgy · 09-25-2006, 02:51 PM

great response.

I tried to Google an answer for myself, and i did query the aborigines too, but there are so many different sites to check out. I will do that though, I am so interested in the different spiritual traditions of the world.

09-26-2006, 12:08 AM

Thanks PollySis, I just popped in quickly but I'm going to check out all that stuff. I did my spell, and things have improved so who knows, I'm keeping an open mind! I almost burnt myself doing the spell but hopefully I will improve lol.

"I tried to Google an answer for myself, and i did query the aborigines too, but there are so many different sites to check out. I will do that though, I am so interested in the different spiritual traditions of the world." - Georgy, me too, I've always been interested in different religions & traditions, its just wading through all the info.

KelzJo · 09-28-2006, 08:33 PM

Ok, I'm new to this site, so all I have to say first is. . .Yippie that I found this thread. I'm also a Pagan and it's difficult dealing with people's misconceptions about things. Paganism is so broad and it encompasses so many beliefs. I have several friends who are eclectic in their beliefs, a friend who is working on her second triad in the Ar Afalon tradition, and a friend who recently completed her first degree and is a Wiccan Priestess. It's so great to continue to meet other Pagans, and those who are interested in hearing about what we believe.

Datura · 09-28-2006, 11:41 PM

Hi,

So great to have found this thread! Thought I was the only one here!

These days I mostly focus on the nature-spirit side of things, and I have a wonderful friend who celebrates all the seasons with me. I used to be part of a small coven, but the politics were just too much for me.

Just throwing a question out for you all: How do you feel about Beltaine (coming up soon in Southern Hemisphere) as a fertility rite in the context of PCOS? Does anyone here actually celebrate Beltaine as a fertility rite? I know I don't, since I'm not TTC! Hope I'm not prying too much.

Also, I'm reading the most wonderful book that I highly recommend to everyone. Its called "The Stations of the Sun - A History of the Ritual Year in Britain" by Ronald Hutton. It doesn't include Irish traditions (except where they were also found in Britain), as he felt that was a much larger task, for a later stage. Its a very detailed archeological and historical perspective on the origin and development of the ritual year in Britain, including Christmas, Candlemas, Easter, Beltane, Samhain, and various harvest festivals.

PollySis · 09-29-2006, 10:34 PM

Hi Datura!

Still not read that book, but last year I was glued to Ron Hutton's 'Triumph of the Moon'. So I'll follow your recommendation and read that one, too! For anyone who hasn't come across Prof Hutton - he's recommended! He takes a long, hard, critical look at the history of paganism - and strips away all the New Age nonsense! He's a longstanding member of the Order I'm a member of:

www.obod.co.uk

so I would be biased, re. Ron Hutton!

Interesting point about Beltane (seems so long ago, here in the N. hemisphere, already!) I have used it at least once in the past for fertility purposes - and it worked! I got a friend to do the spell working, though, didn't do it myself as I felt it too close to home.

I'm absolutely sure that I conceived so many times despite severe PCOS all my adult life - purely because of workings/visits to certain sacred sites. In fact, I watch the non pagans struggling ttc sometimes and wish I could tell them a few things... anyone else feel that?

I feel more of a crone than a mother these days, so Beltane has become one I don't do much for, now! The younger pagans here will be able to answer you better.

emmytons · 10-04-2006, 12:47 AM

What a wonderful thread! I plan to sit here and read each and every post as I've always been curious about paganism. Myself I've never really been able to grasp or fully accept the Christian (Methodist and Baptist) way I was raised. Something just didn't feel right and somehow this sounds familar to me. I'm sure I'll have some questions as I read so forgive me if I sound a little behind.

PollySis · 10-04-2006, 10:22 AM

Welcome, emmytons! Feel free to ask away and I'm sure the lovely pagans here will try and answer your qs!

jennynd · 10-05-2006, 05:51 PM

Wow, I have to say, for a thread that claims to be weeding out misconceptions, you sure have plenty of your own...

Quote:

...we don't actively preach or convert as we don't require 'bums on seats' to keep a priesthood/buildings/infrastructure afloat.

Therefore there is no concept of 'heaven' - let alone hell or purgatory. The reason we must be caring and decent people on earth is not to win something after we are dead. There is no time for 'deferred gratification' and no concept of building up brownie points…

…we believe that no one has the authority to preach at us…

Even when I first heard that story - would have been about 5 - it struck me as strange that 'knowledge' was automatically an evil thing.

I for one don't need impressive buildings or priests setting themselves up above me, or any liturgy of any kind.

…found too many holes in the arguments of mainstream religions, and found them too male-oriented, too dictatorial and sexist.

In fact, I watch the non pagans struggling ttc sometimes and wish I could tell them a few things...

PollySis · 10-05-2006, 09:29 PM

Jenny, I'd guess any one of us could go down any Misconceptions thread and pull out things that seem to be 'misconceptions', to us. I've never seen anyone quite rude enough to do it, yet.

If my posts here are full of misconceptions, simple answer is... don't read them! You might be doing yourself a favour. But read other folks', as they don't seem to me to be prejudiced in any way!

I'm a cyncial old bat, and I can't change the way I think, nor will I. Hope I have some courtesy though.

Love, light and in the words of the Irish comedian, Dave Allen - *May your god go with you*.

PhoenixRaven · 10-06-2006, 09:11 AM

I just want to share one of my favourite quotes at the present moment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edain McCoy

When one defines oneself as Pagan, it means she or he follows an Earth or Nature religion, one that sees the Divine manifest in all creation. The cycles of Nature are our Holy Days, the Earth is our Temple, its plants and creatures our partners and teachers. We worship a deity that is both male and female, a mother Goddess and a father God, who together created all life, cherish the free will of sentient beings and accept the sacredness of all creation.

Hugs to all!

Blessed Be
~ Corrie ~

KelzJo · 10-07-2006, 01:26 AM

Phoenix, I totally loved that quote. Thanks for sharing it with all of us. I'm always looking for quotes that pertain to Pagans.

PhoenixRaven · 10-07-2006, 08:53 AM

you are very welcome!

It is very hard I have found to find decent quote sites ... can't remember where I got that one from ... doesn't matter. It's bee-u-tee-full!

bb
C

CelticSpirit · 10-09-2006, 09:03 PM

Hey folks, can you all explain Samhain to me? I keep hearing the ignorant jack@$$es of the world who like to refer to Halloween as based in evil and what-not yet I know that it's based on Samhain and I know that you all are not devil-worshippers and all that the ignorant @$$es like to preach.

So, if you could give me some information, I would be very happy!

PollySis · 10-09-2006, 11:49 PM

LOL Stacie Aw it's great to have you over here! Yep, there's no devil worshippers in these parts - we can't worship what we don't believe in! I suppose all religious groups have stereotypes, though, and that's one of our's!

So far as I know, 'Halloween' is a christian festival, All Hallows Eve. Samhain (Pronounced Sow-en) is the older version.

Before I start I should say that, traditionally, in England, 'Halloween' was seen as an American thing - and it wasn't celebrated at all, by christians or pagans, until the past 15 years or so. For kids never bothered with Halloween, but these days with globalisation I spose, Oct 31 has taken over! But when I was a kid, we didn't just do Bonfire Night, we also did something we called Mischievious Night (which is not unlke Trick or Treat), and we did it on Oct 31 or Nov 1 I forget which. That was a Yorkshire thing, I've not heard of it elsewhere in England. I could be wrong, though?

We also did the apple bobbing thing and the thing where you peel and apple and throw it over your shoulder, and it lands in the shape of your future husband's initial. Many of our 'superstitions' are in fact, remnants of long forgotten pagan ceremonies. I'd guess the looking to the future thing is because Nov 1st is the old New Year?

Like many christian festivals, Halloween coincides with a pagan one. I know nothing about All Hallows, all I can imagine it refers to is 'all the saints'?

We've had a bishop in the UK press bemoaning the evils of Halloween and how it's turning kiddies to 'the dark side'. Which amuses most pagans as it's a christian festival - not one of our's!

To some pagans, Halloween's pretty disrespectful as it seems to mock us and/or perpetuate stereotypes of 'witches', etc. For many, Halloween mocks what is, to us, probably one of the most serious rites/times of year. Not all pagans have a problem with it, it depends on which sort of pagan culture you come from - for example, wiccans I know are probably much more relaxed about the christian Halloween, than are more traditional witches, or heathens, (those who follow the old Norse gods) . Although as with everything to do with paganism - no hard n fast rules!

Last week I went to see the largest stone monolith in England - a huge piece of stone set into the ground. It happens to be about 6 yards from a church, and the guidebook written by a former vicar, I think, said that the reason churches were built so close to/on top of sacred sites were so that the 'new' religion could make sure no-one sneaked back at night to keep the old religion alive! Presumably the monolith was once part of a stone circle - all the rest of the stones long gone, but this one, at 26 foot high, too deeply set in the ground for them to shift.

Many pagans in Britain/Eire do celebrate the festivals at our sacred sites. Many more have small circles with friends, or do solo rites at home. For me, Samhuinn is a time for home and hearth, especially because we want to welcome the ancestors into our lives.

Most of us feel that Samhain (Or 'Samhuinn', the Scots Celtic way of spelling it) is the time when the veil between the worlds is at its thinnest. It is also the original 'new year'. For me it's a time when I honour the ancestors, and sometimes practice divination.

We have 8 big festivals in the year. Four are solar (solstices, equinoxes), and 4 more to do with the land - the old agricultural calendar.

Here's something I found for you on the OBOD homepage. This person says it better than I can.

Quote:

The Thinning Veil by Copperlion

To the ancient Celts, the year had two "hinges". These were Beltaine (the first of May) and Samhain, (the first of November), which is also the traditional Celtic New Year. And these two days were the most magical, and often frightening times of the whole year.

The Celtic people were in superstitious awe of times and places "in between". Holy sites were any border places - the shore between land and water (seas, lakes, and rivers), bridges, boundaries between territories (especially when marked by bodies of water), crossroads, thresholds, etc. Holy times were also border times - twilight and dawn marking the transitions of night and day; Beltaine and Samhain marking the transitions of summer and winter. Read your myths and fairytales - many of the stories occur in such places, and at such times.

At Samhain (which corresponds to modern Halloween), time lost all meaning and the past, present, and future were one. The dead, and the denizens of the Other World, walked among the living. It was a time of fairies, ghosts, demons, and witches. Winter itself was the Season of Ghosts, and Samhain is the night of their release from the Underworld. Many people lit bonfires to keep the evil spirits at bay. Often a torch was lit and carried around the boundaries of the home and farm, to protect the property and residents against the spirits throughout the winter.

Many Irish and Scottish Celts appeased their dead with a traditional Dumb Supper. On Samhain Eve, supper was served in absolute silence, and one place was set at the head of the table "for the ancestors". This place was served food and drink without looking directly at the seat, for to see the dead would bring misfortune. Afterwards, the untouched plate and cup were taken outside "for the pookas", and left in the woods. In other traditions, this is the night to remember, honor, and toast our beloved departed, for the veil between the living and the dead is thin, and communication is possible on Samhain Eve

Animals and food supplies needed special protection during this time, too. Samhain marked the time cattle, on which the Scottish Highland economy depended, were brought in from their summer grazing to their winter fold. The Gods were petitioned to protect the cattle during the long, hard winter. By now, the winter store of food had been harvested and stored.

Sir Walter Scott wrote:

On Hallowmas Eve, ere ye boune to rest,
Ever beware that your couch be blest;
Sign it with cross and sain it with bread,
Sing the Ave and the Creed.
For on Hallowmas Eve, the Night Hag shall ride
And all her nine-fold sweeping on by Her side,
Whether the wind sing lowly or loud,
Stealing through moonshine or swathed in cloud.
He that dare sit in St. Swithin's Chair,
When the Night Hag wings the troubled air,
Questions three, when he speaks the spell,
He must ask and She must tell.

Samhain is also the night of the Great Sabbat for the witches (Ban-Druidh, in Scots Gaelic). On Hallowmas, all the witches of Scotland gather together to celebrate, prophesy, and cast their spells. Tradition has it that on this night, they can be seen flying through the air on broomsticks and eggshells, or riding black cats, ravens, or horses on their wild Hallowmas Ride. The rural people did not dare step outside their doors for fear this night. Some say the Queen of Witches is the Irish Morrigan (also called Morgan le Fay). In other traditions, the Blue Faced Hag of Winter - the Calleach - rules this night.

A good example of a Scottish Highland ghost story (as told to me by Clan Donald member, Kenneth Wiepert), is about Clan Donald's own witch. He told me the following tale:

" The MacDonald's of Glen Coe have their own witch. Her name was Sidiethe, and she was a Water Witch with fair skin and red hair. She was always seen in a white robe with a black cape. Sidiethe often sings along the banks of Loche Linhe, near Glen Coe and sometimes she is weeping. Shortly before the massacre at Glen Coe in 1692, she was seen washing clothes at the ford of the river while she wept. (Ed. Note: often the bean sidhe (banshee), attached to a great household is seen washing clothes or shrouds while she weeps, prior to a tragic death or catastrophe.)

Sightings of this ghost go back as far as the 1100's. She is also known as the White Witch of Glen Coe. Loche Linhe is reported to have a kelpie, as well!"

Faeries migrated from the summer hillocks to the winter barrows on Samhain night. If you had families that were captured by fairies that year, this was the one night you could win them back, be snatching them off their faerie mounts as they rode by. The famous Scottish legend, Tam Lin, is the story of a faithful young maiden that rescued her lover from the faeries on this fateful night.

Many of the traditions of Halloween derive from Pagan and Druid customs. It is a time of prophesies, of disguising oneself to avert evil, of performing rites of protection from the dead and Otherworldly spirits. The ancient Druid practice was to circle the tribal Samhain bonfire with the skulls of their ancestors, who would protect the tribe from demons that night.

In modern Scotland, children have inherited the ancient custom of disguising themselves in costumes. These "guisers" wear masks, or blacken their faces. They carve turnips in the shape of skulls and place a candle within, creating an eerie effect. The children travel from door to door, performing or singing for their treats. When they are not rewarded for their antics, they resort to tricks.

Those with the Second Sight (Taibhsear, in Scots Gaelic) were often sought this night for traditional Halloween fortune telling. These persons were invited to gatherings to entertain guests with their arcane arts. One method was to prick an egg and let the contents drip into a glass of clear water. The Taibhsear could read the shapes, much like a crystal ball, and predict the supplicant's future.

Apples were the fruit of the Other World, a land sometimes called Avalon or Avallach - the Isle of Apples. They are often used for magic and fortune telling. A young woman would peel an apple all in one paring, and throw it over her shoulder on Samhain Eve. The peeling would take the shape of the first initial of the man she would marry. Eating an apple in front of a mirror while combing your hair will conjure your true love's image in the mirror. Another tradition is "dunking for apples". Apples are placed in a tub or barrel of water, and dunkers will try to retrieve these apples with their teeth. Those who succeed will have good fortune the following year.

Hazel nuts were also used in matrimonial divination. Two groups of "Sweetheart" hazel nuts were placed within the hearth fire; one group was marked with the names of the village's eligible maidens, and the other with the eligible bachelors. As the nuts popped, the names of the pairs were romantically linked. On a more somber note, people sometimes placed a hazelnut with their initials on them in the hearth fire. If the nuts were missing the next morning, the unlucky person would not survive the year. Hazel is a sacred tree in Irish and Scottish mythology. In Ireland, nine hazel trees grew around the Well of Segais, where the sacred Salmon lived. This was the source of all wisdom. Using hazel nuts at Samhain availed seers of that sacred wisdom.

Incidentally, many years ago a dear friend of mine (non pagan) told me when he spent a couple of weeks in Ireland, he heard a banshee, one night. It was a terrifying thing, he never forgot!

For my kids, we usually let them go trick or treating with their friends, but also I tell them the real meaning of Samhuinn. We also sit by the firelight and I tell the old ghost stories I grew up with (People in this part of Yorkshire are also said to be of Celtic heritage, as we were the last pocket of Celtic resistance the Romans couldn't wipe out!) But I do my rite when the kids are in bed, as I usually work around midnight.

For me, it's never a rite I look forward to - but oddly, it always turns out to be a powerful and moving experience and although I often don't mark the festivals at all, samhuinn is one I 'do'.

Hope that helps!

Ah for the pagans out there - what's your take on Samhain?