Paganism - Misconceptions Made Clear - Page 5

mix · 10-10-2006, 09:53 PM

aaah england, how i miss you

PollySis · 10-11-2006, 12:07 AM

Aw, Mix! Where are you? I was an ex pat once, for a year! Hated it! I kissed the ground when we touched down at Gatwick...

mix · 10-11-2006, 02:49 AM

i'm actually in colorado now - i've been here for nearly 4 years. before that, i lived in london. before that, the west country.

just reading some of your posts really made me homesick for england hahah. it conjoured up images of misty countryside, and for some strange reason, kate bush! LOL! well, if i remember correctly, her family roots are pagan too.

we'd be back in england (my american husband and i), but he shares custody of his daughter, with his ex-wife. we plan to move back when my stepdaughter has moved away from home - that'll probably be in about 8 years.

i manage to get back about once a year right now. not enough!

PollySis · 10-11-2006, 09:49 AM

Blimey Mix, there's a coincidence! I lived in Northern Colorado! It was stunningly beautiful there - especially those mountains! But I just missed England too much. Living there did set me off on my spiritual journey in many ways, as I was interested in native American cultures and began to wish we still had more connection with our own pre-xian past. Thats what got me researching and looking for it, when we got home!

mix · 10-11-2006, 04:53 PM

i lived in northern colorado too - up in fort collins. now we live closer to denver, and not far from boulder (which i love). we live very close the mountains, in the foothills.

i also have an interest in the native american culture - i still don't know much about it though. i've wanted to find a good book to read about it, but don't know what one is good. if you have any ideas about that, i'd love to hear them.

Purple_monkfish · 10-11-2006, 09:38 PM

So many pages to read... and already I sense hostility here... eeek.. well then fellow "pagans"... anyone planning anything for Samhain in the north? My personal favorite of the sabats, it also happens to be my partner and my aniversery... horrah!
I love samhain.. it's such a peaceful time of reflection. I always feel so charged after my ritual at sundown, and tend to spend a good few hours relaxing and reflecting... then it's time to celebrate LIFE.

Yule's going to be special this year though.. what with little one due on the 22nd and all. I half hope he'll actually arrive then.

Pollysis> another yorkshire lass? fantastic. I know what you mean about the festivals, I seldom have the time to do much... i'm trying to be a little more proactive, just because I feel I SHOULD... but I never do much beyond a simple ritual and some minor alter decoration... I say alter.. it's more a windowsill with some candles on it... heh. We just don't have the space for a proper alter, and it looks so pretty with the natural light and all.

Archaeologically (my man's an archaeologist and I did study it for several years), a lot of faiths (especially the roman ones) absorbed the old faiths and incorperated them into their own. Politically it makes sense... makes the transition from one faith to another so much easier to swallow.. telling the natives that the god they worship is false and they're wrong is just going to cause hostility.. whereas telling them their god is actually a facet of another god they call by a different name, or even a servent of a greater god (in the case of the christian saints) is a little gentler... gotta love roman politics.
I always wonder what would have happened had the emperor not been christian.. it was such an underdog cult till he made it the state religion. Mithras could have been the common western faith... or one of the other copious faiths that were about at the time. interesting isn't it?

PollySis · 10-11-2006, 10:24 PM

Ello Purple and ello and welcome everyone lurking and posting - pull up a seat!

Quote:

I always wonder what would have happened had the emperor not been christian.. it was such an underdog cult till he made it the state religion. Mithras could have been the common western faith... or one of the other copious faiths that were about at the time. interesting isn't it?

Purple I went to a huge exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in York, this summer, about the Emperor Constantine. I think it was one of the biggest ever put together.

Turns out, there's some evidence he lived and died a pagan, but it was politic to pretend to be christian. (For trading, I think?) Quite ironic, because there's a big statue of him right outside York Minster! He was in York when he heard he was Emperor. The exhibition was a real eye-opener. Like everyone else, I'd always thought it was all Constantine's fault, we lost our own native culture! Apparently, he was just a pragmatic man. Here's something I found online about the exhibition:

www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART36102.html

Like many early 'converts', it's possible he thought this new god wasn't incompatible with continuing to worship the old ones - especially as he continued to build pagan temples in his empire long after the supposed 'conversion'! I know arachaeologists have found early xian graves in Scandinavia that have both christian and pagan aspects to them, and I think the sagas mention vikings who 'converted' to xianity but continued to pray to Odin, as well as the new god, 'belt and braces' style!

It was an 'underdog cult' for some time in the Roman Empire, but became a craze amongst noble Roman women, apparently, and that's how it took off. I always think the sad thing about it in Britain is that it died out anyway, when the Roman Empire fell apart, around the 5thC, and we only got it back because of the Irish missionaries being a tad too pro-active. Bad luck the first time round too, as it resembled the Mithraan cult, as you say - and that had been fairly exlusive to army officers and an elite, so it probably had appeal because it was similar to the Mithras Cult but didn't have such a high class of entrance requirements! It seems a quirk of history that it spread due to the Roman Empire, and later, the British Empire, right across the globe - pure accident of history.

KelzJo · 10-12-2006, 09:15 AM

Blessings all! I have to say that I'm looking forward to Samhain this year. It's my first year out of the broom closet and with all my new pagan pals. (I moved to North Carolina last Dec. and since then have met lots of new pagans.) So anyway, I'm hoping for a nice night. This weekend several friends are gathering at my house and we're making plans and arrangements. We don't do rituals together, too many different paths for us to do that right now. But we will all be getting together to celebrate anyway. Hopefully everyone else has a wonderful Samhain also. Hope that everyone has a wonderful day today.

PollySis · 11-04-2006, 11:00 PM

Talking of misconceptions, this is from today's 'Guardian' (for those not in the UK that's a prestigious, old newspaper not our notoriously bad, gutter press tabloid newspapers, therefore a very credible source.

Shows the sort of outlandish prejudices pagans face. Imagine if pagans were any other religious group - how outraged people would be:

Quote:

In scenes reminiscent of medieval witchhunts, Catholic pilgrims in Glastonbury have attacked pagans and threatened to "cleanse" them from the town.Local pagans were pelted with salt and branded witches who "would burn in hell" during a procession organised by Youth 2000, a conservative Catholic lay group. The Magick Box, a pagan shop on the route of the march, was also singled out and attacked.
Maya Pinder, the owner of the shop, said: "We've had to hear comments such as 'burn the witches', we've had salt thrown in our faces and at our shop, people were openly saying they were 'cleansing Glastonbury of paganism'....

"It was as if we had returned to the dark ages. This is hugely damaging to Glastonbury ... it is hard enough to trade in Glastonbury as it is, if you were to take away the pagan element it would be a dead town." The Somerset town is known for having a large population of resident and visiting pagans.The archdruid of Glastonbury, Dreow Bennett, said: "To call the behaviour of some of their members medieval would be an understatement. I personally witnessed the owner of of the Magick Box being confronted by one of their associates and being referred to as a bloody ***** and being told 'you will burn in hell'."
Father Kevin Knox-Lecky of St Mary's church said that after meeting representatives of the pagan community he had decided not to invite Youth 2000 to the town again.
He said: "A family appeared who we don't know, who were very destructive not only in the town and to the pagan community, but were also swearing at our parishioners as well."
He said the majority of Catholics taking part in the procession had been well-behaved and respectful of the pagans.
The retreat was organised last week to mark the 467th anniversary of the beheading of the last abbot of Glastonbury Abbey, Richard Whiting, and fellow martyrs.
Youth 2000 describes itself as "an independent, international initiative that helps young adults aged 16-35 plug back into God at the heart of the Roman Catholic Church".
It was set up 10 years ago by a disenchanted Catholic barrister who wanted a return to the traditional teachings of the church for young people.
Charlie Conner, the managing director of Youth 2000, said: "There were several incidents that happened that same weekend that were linked to people who had come to Glastonbury for the retreat. This was in direct contravention of the general spirit of Youth 2000 and its express instructions. The young man who was fined was not in fact registered on the retreat, although he did attempt to attend it.
"Youth 2000 does not condone or encourage this kind of behaviour from anyone. We fully agree that differences on matters of faith cannot and should not be resolved by any kind of harassment."
A spokesman for Avon and Somerset police confirmed a youth had been arrested at Magick Box on suspicion of causing harassment, alarm or distress.
Two women were also given cautions and warned about their future conduct.

silverhawk · 12-19-2006, 11:11 AM

Almost Yule... what is everyone doing for it?

we're just doing the presents and dinner. I personally am going to light a candle and try to tend it all night long.... we'll see how long that lasts....

BrightCeleste · 12-19-2006, 11:42 AM

Hi ladies,

Mind if I join you in this thread? I'm just your standard-issue, somewhat closeted, solitary eclectic Pagan who just joined this board a few weeks ago, and I must say it's lovely to see this thread... it's not everywhere we find understanding and acceptance.

to you all..

For Yule itself, I'll probably just make a lovely dinner for DH and I, and we'll light some candles and a fire, and celebrate the return of the light... and we'll be spending the Christmas holidays with his family.

Anyway - nice to meet you all!

CelticSpirit · 12-19-2006, 11:44 AM

Speaking of Yule...

Can you all explain to us non-pagans what the holiday is and how it's celebrated?

Thanks!!!

mix · 12-19-2006, 12:22 PM

funny - only last night i was thinking how i wanted to make one of those yule log cakes. i remembered we used to make those all the time at school, because all you needed was a swiss roll, some chocolate butter icing and a plastic robin to stick on top

BrightCeleste · 12-19-2006, 12:39 PM

Thank you for being so nice as to ask, CelticSpirit..

To me, Yule is simply a celebration of the turning of the year, and the rebirth of the Light, which will get brighter and brighter as winter grows into spring. It's all about being in tune with the seasons and honoring the cycles of the Earth. But that's just me - Paganism is very individualized and there are many different paths and traditions that may be followed.

Here are a few links about the Pagan celebrations of Yule and the Winter Solstice..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...solstice.shtml
http://www.ecauldron.com/yuleindex.php
http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

CelticSpirit · 12-19-2006, 06:08 PM

Thanks so very much for that information.

I knew that I learned about Yule but couldn't remember enough about it. It's the damned sleep deprivation, I tell you! LOL

Thanks again!!!