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Old 10-19-2008, 10:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PCOS or estrogen-dominace? How can I tell?

Hi - I'm pretty new here. I've been dealing with progressive symptoms of PCOS for over 10 years now - I'm pretty fed up and want to take some proactive measures to improve/eliminate these distressing symptoms a.s.a.p. The thing is - because of financial/insurance issues - I probably won't be able to get medical treatment for this problem -- at least not in the forseeable future. So I won't be able to have professional assistance in figuring out whether my symptoms are actually PCOS/insulin resistance, or some other hormonal imbalance - namely "estrogen dominance". For the past year or so, I've been pretty much operating under the assumption that I "simply" have estrogen dominace, and not full-blown PCOS (IIRC, this previous assumption is evident in my first post here) - but now I'm back to "square one", and wonder if I do actually have PCOS (I say "square one" because I first suspected PCOS ten years ago...but somehow that concern was either put on the back burner or got "lost" amongst other issues.)

A little background (I'll try to be as brief as possible): I've suffered from life-long social anxiety disorder - and when I hit early-adulthood, I developed debilitating, full-blown mental illness (mainly major depression - although other disorders may be involved). I had to start taking psychiatric medications for my illness - and it was some time in the middle of taking Prozac when (looking back) PCOS-like symptoms first started creeping in. Some of you may be familiar with psychiatric-med-induced weight gain - well, this phenomenon hit me hard. Soon after my psychiatrist raised my daily Prozac dose - I started noticing that I was gaining weight for no real reason - weight that was impossible to lose. Some 80 pounds later, I still have this problem...excess weight that seems impossible to lose!

Some time after I started gaining weight - other PCOS-like symptoms started creeping in. I would sometimes have irregular/abnormal periods (although for the vast majority of these years - my periods have been pretty regular). A few years after this, I started noticing hirsutism (way more hairs growing underneath my chin than is normal, w/ some stray "whiskers" near my sideburns), then the accelerated loss of scalp-hair started happening. As far as weight-distribution...my breasts grew huge, I have a lot of weight in my belly area (I've always had a protruding belly - as a child and even as a slim, slightly-underweight college junior) - but a lot of weight also went to my hips and thighs.

Each time I've gone off my psychiatric medication - the symptoms of my mental-illness seemed worse and more unbearable than they were the previous time I was medication-free. When I tried to go without medication last year - I had very signifcant problems with insomnia, and even panic-like symptoms. I had never had insomnia issues before - at least nowhere near this severe: even when I had been medication-free, I slept decently. In fact, if I had any sleep problems in the past - they tended toward sleeping too much: dating back to adolescence, I've tended to be a bit of a low-energy "sleepy head". So to suffer from such severe insomnia was a shocker for me. And as far as the panic-like symptoms - I've always had severe problems with social anxiety and anxiety - but never to the point of feeling these strange panic-like sensations. So this symptom was new, as well. Knowing what I know now about the effects of estrogen-dominance - I wonder if these new symptoms signify a progression of estrogen-dominiance and/or PCOS? Maybe I'm suffering from the mental/psychological effects of estrogen-dominance on top of my already-severe mental illness? It seems this way. Yikes.

As far as the way my periods are currently...the last time I went through a phase of irregular periods was four years ago. They have been pretty regular since that time - but within the past year or two, they have been HEAVY...way too heavy. Oh - and I forgot to mention that I've suffered from acne (actually, I've been dealing with acne since the 7th or 8th grade).

Is there a way for me to tell whether this is PCOS, or "just" estrogen-dominance? I've had my (fasting) glucose tested two or three times within the past couple of years - and the results have all been within the "normal" range. (I will try to dig up my specific readings and post them later.) But, as I understand it, I still could be insulin resistant - and hence have PCOS. I try to eat a healthy diet - and get exercise - so this could be the one thing that's preventing my blood glucose from being excessive. My cholesterol levels have all tested normal, as well - in fact, I believe one test showed my LDL to be lower than normal. My blood pressure has for the most part been normal, even low at times. But during my most recent testing (in April) - the nurse was a bit concerned that it was in that "gray", border-line area between normal and high. I am on (generic) Wellbutrin, though - and she thought that this could be the reason why it is elevated.

I would appreciate any help, advice, opinions you guys could give. I plan to treat my symptoms by taking Vitex or/and progesterone cream - but I want to know if I would merely be treating the symptoms (since Vitex and NPC don't actually lower insulin levels) - or if I would be a step closer to "the root" of the problem.

Thanks. (Sorry that I couldn't be more consise.)
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
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So do I have people stumped? Is the 0 replies a sign that I will have to continue to be in the dark as to whether or not I actually have PCOS?
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi - I'm not sure personally about the connection with depression/psychiatric medications but I know some ladies with PCOS can have problems with depression and other related disorders. However the sympoms you discribe (excess hair, irregular/abnormal periods, weight gain and acne) are definitely a sign of PCOS. IR isn't always found in ladies with PCOS and it's been mentioned that the tests aren't sensitive enough to diagnose it. Estrogen dominance is also a symptom of PCOS which leads to other symptoms so they can be related as well.

Definitely try vitex and NPC as an alternative route as they're good for balancing hormones (help estrogen/progesterone balance), regulating cycles as well as help with heavy, long, painful periods. For the IR and weight gain, maybe try Cinnamon or Apple Cider which if you do a search on SC or google you'll find plenty of information regarding those.

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Old 10-23-2008, 01:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow View Post
Hi - I'm not sure personally about the connection with depression/psychiatric medications but I know some ladies with PCOS can have problems with depression and other related disorders. However the sympoms you discribe (excess hair, irregular/abnormal periods, weight gain and acne) are definitely a sign of PCOS. IR isn't always found in ladies with PCOS and it's been mentioned that the tests aren't sensitive enough to diagnose it. Estrogen dominance is also a symptom of PCOS which leads to other symptoms so they can be related as well.

Definitely try vitex and NPC as an alternative route as they're good for balancing hormones (help estrogen/progesterone balance), regulating cycles as well as help with heavy, long, painful periods. For the IR and weight gain, maybe try Cinnamon or Apple Cider which if you do a search on SC or google you'll find plenty of information regarding those.

HTH
Hi - thanks for the reply. Yeah - I'm definitely considering taking Vitex or Hyponid (sp.?) - but I wasn't sure if these were safe for people with normal insulin levels. Would taking these cause my insulin levels to dip too low if I don't have excess insulin?

Up until about a week ago, NPC was definitely my first choice (I didn't know about other alternatives) - I even have some NPC (purchased about a year ago) sitting here at home, ready to use. But NPC by itself does nothing to lower excess testosterone/andrgens, right? So would NPC alone halt or reverse the scalp hair loss and hirsutism (& other "masculine" characteristics) that I'm experiencing? I'm definitely looking to improve these "masculinizing" symptoms - so I'm wondering if NPC would be the best choice. Do women have success in reducing/eliminating the masculinizing symptoms by taking NPC alone?
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Old 10-24-2008, 07:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi
I have a great, pretty well known doctor, and he's treating me with a compound of cinnamon and chromium and a pharmaceutical grade fish oil supplement because I can't take Metformin. He put me on progesterone cream yesterday - but only because I asked for it to treat my painful periods. He seems happy with my progress on just the fish oil and cinnamon, so you may be able to get by with those until your finances/insurance clear up. Still, though - you should see a doctor if you can. At least to make sure you don't have anything dangerous like high estradiol or anything. Not that anything you said indictated that. As for the mental health issues - I read that "they" are now thinking that many women are being improperly diagnosed with mental illness that in reality just have PCOS or other hormone related issues and once they are being treated for them the mental illness symptoms clear up. Supposedly, hormone issues are the first thing a psychiatrist is supposed to look into before diagnosing women.
Also, as other cysters have said, try eating cinnamon pretty often and try it on things you haven't tried it on. It tastes great on peanut butter toast, in coffee, on some cereals.
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