I've been having some major concerns lately regarding how pcos and birth control pills effect pheromones. I am a naturalist, and a Freudian and for me, everything comes down to primal attraction and sex. I believe that pheromones totally aid us in finding a suitable mate, and they also render us more attractive to men. apparently women secrete the best smelling pheromones when they are ovulating, because they are the most fertile. Likewise, when women are ovulating they are most attracted to the pheromones given off by men. But if you don't ovulate because you are on birthcontrol or because of pcos, does this mean you are emempt from a most critical facet of human sexual attractions and even love? It totally freaks me out because I may have to be on bcps for the majortity of my life. Could this totally impede upon my reproductory life? Will I be unable to seek out those most compatable with me? Will men be less attracted to me? These are the questions I demand of my docter, and I havn't gotten any solid answers yet, because very little has been proven about pheromones. I'm also concerned about my lowered sex drive... can anyone relate to this? Have you guys worried about these same things?
LOL! When I was in university I was all over Evolutionary Psychology, the same (sort of) argument can be made of plastic surgery as attraction doesn't come from just the chemistry side, but also via looks. Many tell tale signs of health and fertility are being "faked", which IMO is messing with the natural process of selection.
You have an interesting theory. But I'm the hater of all things BCP more because of the havoc it's wrecking on the environment and what it did to me, vs the pheromone side.
Very interesting though!
I say, if you have reservations, find a non-hormonal method of BC. There are some awesome resources out there.
well I'm not on birth control pills contraception, i'm taking them as a treatment for my pcos. So i don't have the luxury of finding another non-hormonal thing cause it's the hormones that i need! It sucks, were all in the same boat though...
I don't use the BCP to manage my symptoms, I choose to go another route.
The moment I went on the BCP, because I was irregular as a teen, I started to gain weight. I put on about 80 lbs. I never made the connection between the BCP and my weight. As soon as I went off to try and get pregnant, I stopped gaining weight.
BCP is filtered by the body, and is flushed out in your urine. Water processing plants are not equipped to remove pharmecuticals from the water supply, at all, be it from urine or people disposing of them down the toilet/drain. My SIL works at a plant, so I know this first hand. Check out the EWG.org site for more information.
Amphibians are being affected, fish, reptiles - all considered sensitive to hormonal changes - they're swapping sexes, they have reproductive abnormalities. Male Polar bears are exhibiting female like traits because they are eating food contaminated with estrogens, which then build up in their fat stores.
You know what else is distressing I read an article that stated men chose mates that are "fertile".. Apparently women with a waist to hip ratio of .7, long thick hair, no facial hair, clear complexions, small noses, pouty lips, high cheekbones, wide smiles, wide set eyes, high foreheads and small chins are considered most attractive.. Research has shown these women have higher levels of estrogen.. unfortunately for me I have low estrogen and high androgens.. PCOS not only ruins our health but our love life
Last edited by Goddess Hectate Help; 03-09-2009 at 10:16 PM.
Yep, but on the flip side, during our fertile times, we find men with higher testosterone more attractive and are more likely to orgasm with them. Women also have higher "cheating" incidents during this time. While we settle with men that can provide, they may not have the best DNA profile, yet the testosterone males...likely do.
There is an interesting book out there called Survival of the Prettiest that talks about the science behind basic beauty for men and women. If you really really want to get into it, there is another book by Jared Diamond "Why Sex is Fun". I can give you a few more titles in the genre if you want.
Also, you have to remember that what one culture finds attractive, another not as much. Hell, we should all move to africa where they WANT big ladies with big butts (in their culture, where one is likely to have to live through famine, extra fat is a survival mechanism).
Luckily, my husband likes a little meat on my bones. I however do not.
I'm fat and have screwed up hormones and don't ovulate on my own very often, but I still found a kind, generous man to share my life with - in fact, he's still head over heels crazy about me even after 5 years of marriage, and hopefully I'll still be saying that in another 50 years, too! I believe many women here have a similar story. Don't get so hung up on these beliefs that you think they're an infallible set of life rules. Even if there is something to it, very few things in life are 100% black and white.
I say this not to argue with your beliefs but to encourage you, so please take it in the spirit in which it was given. Your pheremones and body type do not etch your fate in stone - there are many many many other contributing factors, not the least of which will be actual choices you make.
BTW, there are better and more natural ways to manage PCOS than BCP. They were horrible for me and I'll never take them again. Check out the Alternative Remedies section - there are lots of things you can experiment with to find what works best for you.
Amen Anonykat! I am in the same boat.. up and down weight, crazy male hair growth and still have found a man that is crazy attracted to me and loves me. Don't give up hope ladies!
__________________ Heather
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Blessed with the love of my life!
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BCP age 12 painful/irreg menses
Dx PCOS '99 by OB
50-100 cysts ea ovary
Not satisfied w/ OB diag/treat
Switched to Repr Spec '02
Dx Diabetes II '02
Met 2000mg
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There is an interesting book out there called Survival of the Prettiest that talks about the science behind basic beauty for men and women. If you really really want to get into it, there is another book by Jared Diamond "Why Sex is Fun". I can give you a few more titles in the genre if you want.
Yes! I would like to have the suggested reading list on Evolutionary Psychology and things of that sort - especially as they might relate to PCOS and the physical outward signs and symptoms of PCOS! This is a subject that interests me greatly. I have been tempted many time to buy "Survival of the Prettiest" on Amazon - I just prefer to see a book in person prior to purchasing - and although I have looked I never seen it in a local bookstore . If you could please provide a sentence or two on some of the books in your suggested reading list re: content and what to expect - that would be awesome and I think I would be willing to trust the impression of a fellow cyster on book selections on this subject! Again I hope to find some information that has a tie in, related even loosely, to the physical signs and symptoms of PCOS.
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When I was in university I was all over Evolutionary Psychology, the same (sort of) argument can be made of plastic surgery as attraction doesn't come from just the chemistry side, but also via looks. Many tell tale signs of health and fertility are being "faked", which IMO is messing with the natural process of selection.
I'm almost 40 and single - and I have to admit that faking the outward signs of health and fertility seems like a very tempting proposition. I feel like the process of natural selection has selected against me and I want a different experience! I do not wish to procreate - just to find love and acceptance or at least companionship of the male sort. I feel that I have never been perceived as physically attractive and at times I have received shabby treatment which I attribute at least in part to the way I am perceived physically - both of these things are great sources of pain for me. I am all kinds of curious about what [physical] traits might be most significant in determining attractiveness and what possible options [of a physical nature] there might be for someone who was not lucky enough to have been naturally endowed with physical attractiveness.
I understand that pheromones and body type do not etch your fate in stone - and yet sadly things of this sort do matter. Other things matter too, like the way was you present yourself and your level of self confidence. But it is difficult to convey an air of self confidence if you have had a set of life experiences that are not conducive to self confidence. Although certainly that is an area of improvement - I would prefer not to be lectured in this thread about possible ways to improve myself as a person as the whole thing is a sensitive subject for me.
Honestly this is a difficult thing for me to admit - and I understand that what I am taking about is a touchy subject and it is not the experience of most women with PCOS. And I do not wish to offend anyone or make anyone feel bad or worse about themselves. I would like like to say respectfully that if what I am saying is not something that you can relate to in the here and now - that being told of other people’s happy relationships or possible explanations re: what I am doing wrong behaviorally -- are things I have likely heard before and things of that nature are not likely going be perceived as helpful or hopefully (as intended) - but more likely actually hurtful -- so I kindly request that you at least not make such advise or comments at me directly.
I guess I would like to know if anyone else feels the way I do and is interested in some of the things mentioned in this thread pertaining to female “attractiveness” and perhaps things related to improving one's station in life in relation to [physical] attractiveness and being attractive to a "potential mate". - if so, please PM me! I also also just very keen on the idea of improving my physical appearance for my own happiness - regardless of if I ever find a suitable relationship!
Well, "Survival of the Prettiest" takes a basic look at attractiveness and how it is used to get ahead in society.
To give a few examples;
Taller men are promoted more often.
Women who wear high heels are perceived as more sexy and fertile. The fascination with the bondage of womens feet has been going on for centuries.
Lipstick, that has been worn for centuries by women is used to make the lips look plumper and fuller (your lips swell during fertile times and the red tint indicates youth. A child naturally has pink lips and cheeks).
Blush, when worn properly indicates the flush of youth (youth is always associated with fertility) and sexual energy.
The 'smokey' eye look, you know the term "bedroom" eyes? When sexually aroused your eyes change, the blood flow around them changes, giving them a sexual look.
Pale hair and skin of course indicates youth and vitality. This is more of a cultural norm though, in other cultures pale hair and skin is not considered a marker of youth.
Hair, is a huge indicator of fertility. With each child birth, a womans hair changes, for the worse unfortunately (as a rule). The thicker, longer (longer hair means better health - broken ends = ill health) and shinier your hair is the better your health is perceived to be.
As we all know though, physical appearance is only one piece of the puzzle. It's one thing to attract a mate, quite another to capture their interest - this is where personality and self confidence comes into play.
I cannot really recommend anything that has a strict relation to anything PCOS, all of what I have read has come from a very personal interest in the biology of sexual attraction and behavior.
Helen Fisher is a very interesting writer, she is an Biological Anthropologist that has some pretty interesting views on love and sexual attraction. She writes for the common reader, and does go into pretty good detail, provided you have a basic understanding of early human evolution. One book that was quite good was the Anatomy of Love, it is less about sexual attraction, and more about what men and women both look for in a long term relationship. It's a broad look though. She has a more recent book that someone brought to my attention, I have NOT read it yet, but apparently her website has some interactive stuff on it. Just google her name. I have read the first sex which goes into more of a feminist rant based on evolution and biology. I really liked that one, but nothing to do with what you are interested in.
Jared Diamond is a Biological Evolutionist, that has written a whole bunch of different stuff not really in his genre, which is odd. But anyway, his book Why is Sex Fun takes a look at why we have sex. Most species for instance, only have sex when the female is in heat, yet women have sex even when not in a fertile time. This is a really close look at the biology of human sexuality vs animal sexuality and sort of makes some theories on how we've developed and why.
Stephen Jay Gould is another Evolutionary Psychologist that discusses our entire society, if you get interested in the genre as a whole, his book Punctuated Equilibrium is a must read.
Desmond Morris, is a bit of a controversial figiure. Many academics think that he is a sell out, but I think he is an interesting researcher. He is a zooologist/primatologist that began to study human behavior in the early 60's. One of his first works, the Naked Ape is a look at basic human behavior, from all points. He has a new book out about women that may be an interesting read, I'd like to take a look at that one.
Matt Ridley, the Red Queen writes about having sex and why we do it from a very biological standpoint.
My absolute FAVORITE author on the subject is Sarah Blaffer-Hrdy, she is a evolutionary psychologist (a one time primatologist) that is a die hard feminist. Her book Mother Nature: Maternal instincts (I can't remember the rest) goes into great detail the history of women as a sexual being, in society, gender roles, infanticide, wet nursing, birth control, abortion, menopause...oh geeze everything concerning being a woman. I LOVE this book.
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and I have to admit that faking the outward signs of health and fertility seems like a very tempting proposition
Why not? It's not like you are being dishonest. I mean, you certainly do not want to wear a sign on your forehead saying "I have PCOS!". I'm sure that those guys who still live in moms basement don't advertise that fact until they have the interest of a woman.
That is all I'll say there, cause I don't want you to think I'm lecturing in any way.
I do not think that reading and understanding the biological bases of behavior when it comes to human sexuality and attractiveness, and using them to your advantage is a bad thing.
The way I look at it, the more information, the more understanding, the better. As they say, "Knowledge is power".
__________________ Jennifer (35)
TTC - 10 years
2 girls, 2003 & 2006
7 lost
Dx- 2005, self Dx 1996
2005 - Informed I would never have children due to my bi-cornate uterus, tilted cervix and PCOS. HA!
Supplements:
Greens + Energy
Lean +
Abs +
B12 (sublingual)
Vitamin D
B complex
Fish Oil (4000 mg)
Flax Seed (ground, 1 tbsp)
Chromium
Calcium & Magnesium (with Zinc)
Progesterone Cream
Soapdiva, do you work at a library or just visit often? That's some book list you have there! Thanks!
I am currently on BCP, so far, so good. However I am afraid that after I stop, my body will go haywire in need of the hormones, so I would like to implement some alternatives after quitting BCP.
Right now my body must be giving off just the right signals; my SO can't stay away and the guys at work are saying hello more often...might I also add that LHR is helping me to become part of the sexual evolution! The only thing that's missing is the .7 waist to hip ratio; it's more of a apple to drumstick ratio...lol.
Thanks SoapDiva! For the awesome reading list and helpful notes!
I put the following books on hold at the local library: "Why we love : the nature and chemistry of romantic love"
"Why is sex fun? : the evolution of human sexuality"
"Survival of the prettiest : the science of beauty" Wow, that was easy and free! I know that I had tried to find "Survival of the Prettiest" at the library in the past - I am so happy that they seem to have it in the collection now!- although currently checked out- I can't wait for my books to become available! Again Many Thanks SoapDiva -- If I have any interesting impressions or more likely questions re: the books on "my reading list" I will let you know!
Kimberly Millions, I guess with all the stuff re: pheromones and birth control pills - I was assuming that the "HR" in "LHR" was "Hormone Replacement" not "Hair Removal" - anyway congratulations on getting some positive feedback! That has to feel good for you!
PCOS and pheromones 
