really weird testosterone levels....please any input
my testosterone levels were just tested and my total was 85 while my free was 0.7 why would my total be high but my free so low? i thought the free test. was the one that causes ahir/skin problems? trhanks for any help
Maybe those are high enough to bind what you have floating around and keep your free levels down?
Not an expert. Just a hypothesis.
Hey, were you on the other thread saying you took Zoloft? (don't answer if you feel I'm being innapropriate bringing this up here)
I was just wondering if you noticed any effect on your hairloss/growth when taking it.
I'm having a rough time lately because of my hairloss and I think a predisposition to depression and saw that you'd mentioned something about your testosterone levels feeling lower? I found evidence of this and was wondering if it was true in practice for anyone. It wouldn't be the reason I was taking it but my androgens have risen this year after having a baby, so I'd like to get them down again. That would be a nice side-benefit.
my testosterone levels were just tested and my total was 85 while my free was 0.7 why would my total be high but my free so low? i thought the free test. was the one that causes ahir/skin problems? trhanks for any help
The SHBG is a big factor I think too. I had just the opposite problem. My total went down (although it never has gone into a normal range) but while my free remained elevated and in fact even kept going higher even on meds. My SHBG was low so there was nothing for the testosterone to bind too. So although I was freeing up my total which meant it was going down, once it was free there was nothing to catch it. Last blood work showed that the free finally has started dropping a little and the SHBG is up a tad, but I'm still not near the normal ranges for either.
But too much testosterone is still too much testosterone no matter what form it comes it so although the free testosterone is free to play havoc in your body, it doesn't mean that the total testosterone can't do harm either. So if you're having the hair, skin, etc. issues that's probably why.
Wow Glitterstar! Why do you think your free kept going up, even on treatments?
I've been trying to piece together my puzzle and thought that metformin would help lower testosterone and possibly raise shbg.
I just started treatment for hypothyroid and heard that hypos have low shbg too. My shbg levels are supposedly normal but so are my T levels. They're obviously not normal for me though or I wouldn't be having these issues.
I'm going to need a degree in biochemistry here soon so I can figure this crap out!!!!
My shbg levels have never been tested. your hypothesis seems very probable. I am currently taking luvox CR..it's an SSRI. i have tried several antidepressants and no matter what anyone says i know that they significantly effect hormone levels. some of the antidepressants cause my eyelashes and eyebrows to grow very thick, others make my skin really oily, some make my skin dry and the one that i am on now makes my breast larger. I 've talked to 2 endos. and 1. gyno. and they both said antidepressants effect androgen levels-they can raise or lower them, and they also said that they typically lower estrogen levels by inhibiting liver metabolization of test. and effecting the sex hormone receptors.
my testosterone levels were just tested and my total was 85 while my free was 0.7 why would my total be high but my free so low? i thought the free test. was the one that causes ahir/skin problems? trhanks for any help
Hi nehalem787,
I don't know if you already are on a bcp , but anti-androgen (or non-androgen) bcps are raising shbg levels a lot.
Wow Glitterstar! Why do you think your free kept going up, even on treatments?
I've been trying to piece together my puzzle and thought that metformin would help lower testosterone and possibly raise shbg.
I just started treatment for hypothyroid and heard that hypos have low shbg too. My shbg levels are supposedly normal but so are my T levels. They're obviously not normal for me though or I wouldn't be having these issues.
I'm going to need a degree in biochemistry here soon so I can figure this crap out!!!!
I don't know, it was/is very frustrating for sure!! Metformin works for some people but for me it really had no effect on testosterone or SHBG. The only results I saw using Met were insulin related; I stopped having back acne and the HS on my inner thighs. That was all Met has done for me. Taking Spiro the past year or so has helped a little. My free and total have started to actually go down, but again, still never into the normal range which means none of my symptoms have really changed. I just started flutamide this week so I'm hoping that will help bring it down further but I'm not holding out much hope really. After so long of nothing working, it's hard to really get stay optimistic that anything else will either, but we'll see.
I've been concerned about hypothyroid myself, which could be why I'm so unresponsive to treatments. Although I have confirmed PCOS, if I have hypothyroid too, it could still counteract all the treatments if it goes untreated itself. My grandmother and an aunt were both on medication for hypothyroidism and in fact it took my grandparents 8 years to conceive because of her condition so it's a family trait for me as well but I've been told my labs are normal in that area several times so the best I can do is trust the doctors.....and I've been to a lot of them, lol.
You said your T and SHBG levels are in normal range, so have you gotten a confirmed dx of PCOS or are you self diagnosing based on your symptoms? Just curious because there are a lot of other things out there that can mimic PCOS symtoms so that may be why you're having issues but seeing no results. Hopeline brings a good point too about BCP's. I can't take them unfortunately because they just add another problem, chest pains and leg cramps, but if you haven't tried them already, they are suppose to help with SHBG so it could be worth a try as well.
It's all so hard to figure out. I've been keeping copies of all my labs for years and charting my free and total testosterone, insulin and glucose, shbg, fsh, etc. along with all the meds I was on at the time, my weight at the time, any other possible influing factors in my life. But so far, I'm not coming up with any rhyme nor reason as to why my body does what it does. So if ya get that bio degree, let me know, LOL.
I have hairloss / unwanted growth, cysts on ovaries.
I've struggled with weight in the past but am at a normal weight now. Don't test positive for insulin resistance either. My cycles for the most part are normal. I skipped last month but I think that was due to extreme stress.
My T is normal according to labs but total T has gone up from 43 to 60 in the last year since having my son. During this time my hairloss/unwanted growth increases as well as my depression during my cycle. So my T level is too high for me, no matter what the lab says. So my main goal is to get those levels down.
I"m not sure that flutamide will lower your androgens. Just block them I think. I've been on it since oct. and my androgens have risen (i just had a baby so my body was reconfiguring). I think the flutamide had trouble keeping up. I do have new growth along my hairline now though so tough to say exactly what is going on.
I know that hypothyroid and pcos causes your shbg to be lower so I wanted to address that. After one week on a half dose of armour my energy levels are up so that has to have been playing some role. Even if not in the hair dept.
After I figure more of this out I'm really considering Fortamet to try and get my T levels down. Just nervous because of all the hairloss stories you hear with that med! I've heard that it helps some too though so I'm really considering it.
I know what you mean. It's a huge puzzle and it's a frustrating one.
Taking Spiro the past year or so has helped a little. My free and total have started to actually go down, but again, still never into the normal range which means none of my symptoms have really changed. I just started flutamide this week so I'm hoping that will help bring it down further but I'm not holding out much hope really.
GlitterStar,
Dr Redmond (and I really consider him THE hairloss doctor) writes in his book too, that spiro and flutamide do not lower the androgens, they are testosterone-blockers so they only block the effect of androgens at the hair follicle. That's the same thing what my endo told me, too, before reading Dr. Redmond's book.
That's why he recommends as a first option hairloss treatement :
- a hair-friendly pill like yasmine or desogen or diane (diane is a Europe popular, but in USA is not imported as not allowed). He writes that the pill is reducing the androgens by half and also raising shbg so a lot less androgens can attact the hair follicle. The pill has to be taken with NO pause, for 12 weeks and then 4 days pause, in order to keep the hormones stable as any hormones fluctuation can produce hairloss.
- a testosterone blocker (spironolactone - the lowest dosis for hairloss is 200 mg / day, cyproterone acetate (androcur) or casodex (he does not recommend flutamide).
- if this all does not work than adding a dht-bloker like finasteride or avodart is an option.
Maybe you can try some other pill, I think that each one of us react different to each pill, so maybe there is one out there that will be working for you. Maybe you can try a pill lower in estrogen, he recommends kariva and yaz, too.
Your doc considers labs with 43-60 to be in the normal range? Wow. The highest I was told a women's should be is 40.
And yes, you're right, flutamide - any "anti"-androgen doesn't really block it. It just helps bind it. The point of taking them really is to block the effects while you work on putting the other hormones in order thru diet, exercise, or other medications. But any help I can get for no matter how long is good to me! LOL. I've never tried Fortamet so if you use it, let us know how it turns out.
Dr Redmond (and I really consider him THE hairloss doctor) writes in his book too, that spiro and flutamide do not lower the androgens, they are testosterone-blockers so they only block the effect of androgens at the hair follicle. That's the same thing what my endo told me, too, before reading Dr. Redmond's book.
That's why he recommends as a first option hairloss treatement :
- a hair-friendly pill like yasmine or desogen or diane (diane is a Europe popular, but in USA is not imported as not allowed). He writes that the pill is reducing the androgens by half and also raising shbg so a lot less androgens can attact the hair follicle. The pill has to be taken with NO pause, for 12 weeks and then 4 days pause, in order to keep the hormones stable as any hormones fluctuation can produce hairloss.
- a testosterone blocker (spironolactone - the lowest dosis for hairloss is 200 mg / day, cyproterone acetate (androcur) or casodex (he does not recommend flutamide).
- if this all does not work than adding a dht-bloker like finasteride or avodart is an option.
Maybe you can try some other pill, I think that each one of us react different to each pill, so maybe there is one out there that will be working for you. Maybe you can try a pill lower in estrogen, he recommends kariva and yaz, too.
I'm aware that spiro nor flutamide do not lower, but they bind and restrict. And I'm not on any pills that contain estrogen so a pill lower in estrogen isn't an option. I've been taking spiro and it doesn't work anyway. I cannot take any BCP...no matter which ones, they give me chest pains and leg cramps which is a huge risk factor for heart attack and stroke.
My doc will not give me, ca, casodex, avodart or finesteride...she gave me flutamide. The others are not really any different than flutamide anyway. Avodart and Casodex are also not FDA approved in women, can cause birth defects, and is used to treat prostate issues/ cancer in men by blocking the effects of testosterone....just like flutamide does. So it's pretty much the same thing as flutamide so why he recommends those but NOT flutamide really makes no sense at all. Basically, other than the BCP's that I can't take, I'm already doing his "first recommendation". And besides, I've only been on flutamide for a week and a half, I really don't expect that it's working already. So I'm going to stay on it and give it it's due time to work. And....aren't you on flutamide? If you consider him to be such an expert why aren't you using his method and using avodart or casodex instead?
Flutamide might not make it happen for me either or it might take awhile but at least I know that going into it but I certainly have to take it longer than a week and a half to find out.
Last edited by GlitterStar; 08-26-2008 at 01:27 AM.
I thought Spiro did lower androgens as well as block.
I was on it for a few years and my levels consistently fell.
The weird thing that happened to me was that when I went off it to get pregnant I had a ton of new hair come back. It wasn't just due to being pregnant. The length aligned more to the timeframe of going off the medicine. (my dark roots!) Maybe being pregnant helped, but It actually was enough hair where it looked like I got a bad haircut.
I still can't figure that one out!
Glitterstar - You mentioned that your doc thought the highest level should be 40? I wish we could get all these docs on the same page! My androgens are definitely too high or I wouldn't be having so many problems.
I'll let you know on the Fortamet (basically slow release metformin). I've been derailed for a bit because of the hypothyroid discovery and now I need to go on an antidepressant (long story). Which is frustrating because these things are keeping me from getting my testosterone down! I am skittish about adding another med as well because the two I just went on can have hair loss as a side effect. Adding another will just add to the stress!
In the meantime I've been using a ton of supplements and just started spearmint tea. Hopefully those will take the edge off till I can try the fortamet. Wonder what effect it will have though since I don't test positive for insulin resistance.
Yeah, I know. It's all so complicated. Technically, spiro isn't even an anti-androgen, it's a diuretic that can have anti-androgen affects on women with PCOS. Flutamide falls in to the "anti-androgen" category but really, it's only suppose to bind the testosterone and limit it's affects on the body. None of them are suppose to be real anti androgens in the sense that it makes the androgens go away. My testosterone actually went DOWN on spiro as well. Not just my free and binded but total as well. Like I said, mine still didn't go down to normal range but there was a noticable drop when I had the blood work done. So it's crazy, I know. They say it won't make it go away, yet it does to some degree but then again it never really works in some areas....UGH, so frustrating!!
Pregnancy could have been your hair growth. When you're pregnant it really ups the estrogen levels which can help a lot with new hair growth. That's why women shed so much after the baby is born, they're losing all that new hair they grew while they were pregnant and they're going back to how they were before. So depending on the time frame of your pregnancy and your hair growth, it's possible.
As far as what my doc told me, the labs (which are done by a seperate company from my docs office) both tell me that 40-45 is the highest range. Now you can be more sensitive to the testosterone and still have the affects of being in a high range when really, you're normal just overly sensitive to it. But the key there would still be to get it down to a range where you're not too sensitive. What was your last count?
I was on antidepressant for a short while too. PCOS makes ya nutty, lol. I couldn't stand it though. I felt worse than better.
Fortamet is just Metformin XR? Hmmm, never heard it called that. I'm on Met now too. I've been on it for many years. It was the first drug I took for PCOS and for the longest time, the only one.
Last edited by GlitterStar; 08-26-2008 at 02:17 AM.
I think pregnancy definitely helped but when I had the growth the length definitely corresponded to the amount of time I was off it. I keep getting tempted to try to get someone to let me add it on again but am afraid that somehow it was making things worse during the time I took it?
The flutamide I think was finally helping, but my hormone fluctuations messed with it for a while. I have a lot of regrowth around my hairline, but it took me more than 10 months. My shedding also finally slowed but then I had my freakout from noticing the thinning and that hiked my shedding back up again. i also started armour to get my thyroid in check so who knows? That's only been a week though so I'd be surprised if that was having an effect already.
All the docs I've been seeing say I'm mid range androgen wise. But those same labs say my thyroid is normal (there's a newer range now) so they obviously aren't the only gauge.
There is an interesting possibility that ssri's lower serum testosterone levels but I don't know if it's been proven or not. I'm praying it's true! I did see one study but wasn't sure how conclusive it was. I'll just be happy if this one calms me down and doesn't give me the hairloss or weight gain side effect!
I'm afraid to go on a bcp again because that's what kickstarted my hairloss in the first place. There might be one out there that works but I'm leary at the moment.
I've actually been really frustrated lately because every "fix" for what I'm going through right now lists hairloss as a side effect! I'm very close to shaving my head and just saying screw it!
really weird testosterone levels....please any input 
