SCBSG Week 3 – Genesis 10-16 - Calling of Abram

amshum · 07-04-2004, 03:38 AM

Welcome to the Soul Cysters Bible Study Group!

Week 3: 7/4 thru 7/10
Genesis Chapter 10 - 16
Calling of Abram
Click here to review the complete syllabus.

Please read the above chapters of Genesis. To discuss the reading with your fellow cysters, please reply to THIS thread only to post your comments, interpretation, etc.

If you would like, you may read the NIV Rainbow Study Bible Outline for Genesis by CLICKING HERE.

I must stress again, this will not be allowed to turn into a debate forum. This is for all of us to learn and study together.

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As far as the syllabus... I welcome any suggestions for the next book, Exodus. I know that some of you are reading ahead, but please keep in mind that there are lots of people who have joined this group and some aren't able to keep a fast pace because of work, school, family, etc. and I wanted to try to move a little slow thru the first book because of this. Feel free to read ahead, and take notes as you go along, so that when those discussion threads are posted, you have yours ready to post. Thank you all for your understanding regarding this.

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Miss-Meme · 07-04-2004, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Chapter 12: 11 As he drew near to Egypt, he said to his wife, Sarai, "Look. We both know that you're a beautiful woman. 12 When the Egyptians see you they're going to say, 'Aha! That's his wife!' and kill me. But they'll let you live. 13 Do me a favor: tell them you're my sister. Because of you, they'll welcome me and let me live."

Why would the kill him because of his wife??

Quote:

Chapter 15: 12 As the sun went down a deep sleep overcame Abram and then a sense of dread, dark and heavy. 13 God said to Abram, "Know this: your descendants will live as outsiders in a land not theirs; they'll be enslaved and beaten down for 400 years. 14 Then I'll punish their slave masters; your offspring will march out of there loaded with plunder. 15 But not you; you'll have a long and full life and die a good and peaceful death. 16 Not until the fourth generation will your descendants return here; sin is still a thriving business among the Amorites."

Why will his descendants by slaves?

Quote:

Chapter 16: 1 Sarai, Abram's wife, hadn't yet produced a child. 2 Sarai said to Abram, "God has not seen fit to let me have a child. Sleep with my maid. Maybe I can get a family from her." Abram agreed to do what Sarai said. 3 So Sarai, Abram's wife, took her Egyptian maid Hagar and gave her to her husband Abram as a wife. Abram had been living ten years in Canaan when this took place.

4 He slept with Hagar and she got pregnant. When she learned she was pregnant, she looked down on her mistress. 5 Sarai told Abram, "It's all your fault that I'm suffering this abuse. I put my maid in bed with you and the minute she knows she's pregnant, she treats me like I'm nothing. May God decide which of us is right." 6 "You decide," said Abram. "Your maid is your business." Sarai was abusive to Hagar and she ran away.

All I can say is wow! I can't believe that he was with another women? And then she got mad at him??

So is her name said like Sara/Sarah? Or is it said differently? Does she every have a child?

This is all that I can think of at this time.

living 2 be alive · 07-05-2004, 12:45 AM

Because even though they worshiped idols, etc ; they wouldn't TAKE another man's wife.

So if they liked her (and they did) they had to kill him in order to have her.

amshum · 07-05-2004, 04:49 AM

Hi ya'll,

I had a lot to comment on and question this time, so please bare with me.
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My thoughts:

Genesis Chapter Ten: Noah's 3 sons (Shem, Ham, and Japheth) helped repopulated the earth after the great food. So, what was interesting to me is that all of these people came from the same family, but when their clans had their own territories and nations, they developed their own languages.

I remember back to our discussions in the first week when the question of languages came up...

Quote:

Originally posted by ChristinaofTexas
I can't remember where I read it today, but somewhere in Genesis it talks about how all the different tribes speak different languages BEFORE Babel. I'll try to find the verse that it mentions that!

Are you referring to Gen. 10? It says it in three different versus - 10:5, 20, and 31 - which basically states that the descendants of each son of Noah's developed their own clans and languages and moved into their territories and nations. This was Pre-Babel, so I hope that helps.

I hate to admit it, but its hard for me to see "Nimrod" in the Bible and not laugh. I often call people nimrods while I'm driving... "Get outta the way you stupid nimrod!" Of course, sometimes I use more colorful language, but that's a different story!

Evidently Nimrod was a mighty warrior, so I wonder how his name has become slang in today's society...

Genesis Chapter Eleven: Tower of Babel

Quote:

from NIV Rainbow Study Bible
11:1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

That makes me wonder what happened to cause this change from their being separate languages between clans to all of a sudden everyone having one common speech. Any ideas?

I' a little bit confused on the Tower of Babel. Did God come down, scatter the people and "babble" (confuse) their languages because he did not want them to stop moving all over the earth? It seems as tho the people wanted to settle down, build a city and make a home there, but God was not ready for them to and scattering them and confusing their language was punishment?

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss-Meme
So is her name said like Sara/Sarah? Or is it said differently? Does she every have a child?

I honestly have no idea. Sarai is the spelling in both my NIV and The Message. But later in Chapter 17:3, God changes Abram's name to Abraham (I read ahead...), and in 17:15 Sarai's name is changed to Sarah by God as well. I hope I haven't spoiled anything for anybody, but I just wanted to point that out... I will wait to ask my questions on why the name changes until we get there next week. And, I know the answer to whether or not Sarai has a child but I'm not telling!

Genesis Chapter Twelve:

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss-Meme
Why would the kill him because of his wife??

I agree with living 2 be alive. They would kill him so that the Pharaoh could have her. So, if Abram just pretended to be her brother, he would live and be taken care of by Pharaoh and acquire wealth in the form of animals, servants and maids as payment for his "sister." Btw, Sarai was Abram's half-sister (Gen. 20:12 - I know I read ahead... sorry!), so he really didn't lie.

Genesis Chapter Thirteen: I found it interesting that Abram gave his nephew Lot the choice of where to move, since there was so much fighting with their herdsmen and not enough land to support both Abram and Lot's flocks and herds. I wonder why Lot chose so poorly in going to Sodom, where it seems it was known (Gen. 13:13 - "Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.") to be evil.

Genesis Chapter Fourteen: Seems Lot's choice to move to or near Sodom was not a good one as he was captured in a battle, along with all his possessions. It was wonderful for me to read of what family should do for you! Abram went after his nephew, along with other trained men of his household, and rescued him and recovered all his possessions to boot. I know that is what I expect family to do... Run to the aid of another family member, and unfortunately that's not always the case in these times (not in my family anyway).

Genesis Chapter Fifteen: Ok, I have a question...

Quote:

from NIV Rainbow Study Bible
Gen 15:3
And Abram said, "You have given me no child; so a servant in my household will be my heir."

Am I reading this right?I found it shocking that first Abram would subject his wife to the Pharaoh, and now he tells God that he is going to sleep with a maidservant just so he can get an heir! This angers me even more because God has promised him on many occasions that he will have many descendants.

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss-Meme
Why will his descendants by slaves?

I am not sure why, but I do know that God is prophesizing the enslavement of Jews in Egypt. Other then it was God's plan, I have no real answer as to why...

Genesis Chapter Sixteen: Ok, I really don't understand Abram and Sarai at this point. Now Sarai is directing her husband to go lay with another women? Sheesh! Perhaps this was common in those days, but its hard for me to comprehend how anyone could say, "No honey, go lay down with my maid... She'll give ya a child."

And then she not only gets mad at him for sleeping with her servant Hagar, but is abusive to Hagar because she becomes pregnant, which is what she wanted! I really don't understand this woman... not one little bit!

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Additional Question:

Pre-flood, we all noted the long life-spans of people. But in the midst of God's anger before the flood, he decided that he would shorten those life-spans:

Quote:

from NIV Rainbow Study Bible
Gen. 6:3
Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal, his days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Then after the flood, Noah, his son's, and all the descendants lived upward of 120 years... Was this because the earth needed to be repopulated again and allowing them to live longer would accomplish that? Or was it because these people were more righteous and God only shortened life-spans because those people were basically hoodlums?

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I want to thank everyone who took the time to read thru this. I know I tend to ramble on a bit, so I'm sorry for that.

Look forward to more discussions!

--Amber

edited to remove siggy

Miss-Meme · 07-05-2004, 11:06 AM

Me Dh and I were also talking about the city of Babel and why God did it.

Quote:

And, I know the answer to whether or not Sarai has a child but I'm not telling!

Well I think I remember the answer to this question too, but the whole Sarai spelling made me question whether it was the same person.

Quote:

And Abram said, “You have given me no child; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”and now he tells God that he is going to sleep with a maidservant just so he can get an heir!

I took the 'servant in my household will be my heir' was just that it would go to the servants when he died? I didn't take this as he was saying he was going to sleep with the maid? I'm I thinking wrong?

Dh and I also wondered about the age span after the flood. They were living upwards of like 230 years?

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By the way, I am enjoying the lessions so far. I hope that I keep interested and keep reading every week. I so want to read ahead, but I don't want to read up and then get bored waiting for the week to come and then forget about it.

PeacefulAngel · 07-05-2004, 02:25 PM

It's my impression from what I read about Babel that they were building the tower "to make a name for ourselves" (ch 11, v3) The notes in my NIV Bible say ~

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People are ambitious - they want to succeed. Genesis portrays humans as so ambitious that they try to compete with, rather than serve, God. This was Adam and Eve's sin, and at Babel, people are at it again, in a city wide effort. God frustrated their plans by confusing their language.
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Hope that makes sense.

Amber...I laughed at Nimrod too!

couldn't help it.

I'll hold off on the name change thing until next week too.

But I personally think it has to do with becomming who God wants you to be.

Does anyone else's Bible call Lot Abraham's brother in one place and nephew in another? Could I be taking "brother" too literal?

Here's what my Bible says about the sleeping with the maid thing.
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According to custom, a man could sleep with a servant and include her children in his household. Abraham was trying to get the children he and his wife longed for and to "help God out" in fullfilling His promise of a son. Abraham's way was not God's way, however, and Abraham's attempt led to considerable jealousy and sorrow.
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I guess it's like when we don't wait on God's time for something we pray about, and try to take care of it ourselves. Always trouble.

I know Sarah did treat her bad, but did you see where it says " When she became pregnant, she began to despise her mistress" (ch 16, v 4) Makes me wonder if Hagar didn't pull the same "Nah nah nah nah boo boo" stunts that my sister-in-law is famous for.

Seems like it was a bad scene all the way around.

Hugs
Julie

amshum · 07-05-2004, 03:51 PM

I just have to say one thing I'm grateful for is that thru the years my Momma has tried to get me to read the Bible, and has bought me quite a few Bibles in that effort. I located two more today (the Amplified Bible and The McArthur Student Bible KJV) , and they really helped clarify some things for me.

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Quote:

Originally posted by ChristinaofTexas
On the question about Babel...I was always taught that they were very sinful because they had wanted to create a short-cut to heaven by making this unbelievably tall tower. I always thought that that is why God punished them. Any help?? I'm confused.

Yes I think you are correct. After reading these verses in the KJV, it says that more clearly....

Quote:

from The McArthur Student Bible KJV
Gen. 11:3,4
3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. 4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lease we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

It seems that these people, decided to honor themselves for their accomplishment to build a grand city. Perhaps the tower was a sort of idol, and that angered God because He does not want us to worship idols (just a thought).

I found this an interesting Commentary on the subject:

Quote:

from The McArthur Student Bible KJV
Commentary:
Gen. 11:3, 4 build ourselves a city.
After God commanded the people to scatter to fill the earth, the people under the leadership of the powerful Nimrod, disobeyed God's command to disperse. They stopped to build a city and tower in their own honor. The tower itself was not the singular act of rebellion. Rather human pride caused them to rebel against.

So it seems that Nimrod did earn his slang by leading these stupid people who disobeyed God and built themselves a tower.

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Quote:

Originally posted by FaithfulAngel
Does anyone else's Bible call Lot Abraham's brother in one place and nephew in another? Could I be taking "brother" too literal?

Can you point me to what version you're reading from and what chapter and verse calls Lot Abraham?s brother?

From reading Terah's Descendants (11:27) we know that Abram's brothers were Nahor and Haran. Haran begot Lot. So Lot is indeed Abram's brother. Perhaps Abram felt a brotherly kinship with his nephew? I'm not sure, so please point me to that part of the scripture. TIA!

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Quote:

Originally posted by Miss-Meme
I took the 'servant in my household will be my heir' was just that it would go to the servants when he died? I didn't take this as he was saying he was going to sleep with the maid? I'm I thinking wrong?

No I think you're correct. I reread the verses in KJV:

Quote:

from The McArthur Student Bible KJV
Gen. 15:3, 4
3 Then Abram said, "Look, You have given me no offspring, indeed one born in my house is my heir!"
4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."

That helped me out a lot... So, basically God told him that this person "Eliezer of Damascus" wouldn't be his heir because he didn't come from his body, meaning its not *his* child. I guess this really has nothing to do with him sleeping wanting to sleep with a maidservant to produce an heir... I guess that was all Sarai's idea.....Maybe? haha

--Amber

edited to remove siggy

PeacefulAngel · 07-05-2004, 04:10 PM

Amber...

These are the verses I was talking about. (NIV _ got this from BibleGateway.com. Awesome resourse, you can look at a verse in several different versions)

Genesis 13
8 So Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers. "

Genesis 14
12 They also carried off Abram's nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.

Now the KJV says it this way

Genesis 13
8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

Genesis 14
12 And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

To me brethern is more symbolic that an actual relation. But that's just me.

I think the message version explains it all!!

Genesis 13
8Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have fighting between us, between your shepherds and my shepherds. After all, we're family.

Genesis 14
12They captured Lot, Abram's nephew who was living in Sodom at the time, taking everything he owned with them.

I answered my own question! YAY Julie!!!

ha ha

amshum · 07-05-2004, 05:33 PM

Haha. Yeah you did! Way to go!

Thanks for pointing me to the verses. I'll be sure to look at them later, but you're right... Lot was Abram's nephew. And I too think brethren and the use of brother in this case means "family".

--Amber

edited to remove siggy

PeacefulAngel · 07-08-2004, 05:36 PM

Wow girl...I had never looked at it that way.

I had always thought that maybe a year back in that time was different than a year today.

I'll have to do some research when I have some time.

Love
Julie

living 2 be alive · 07-09-2004, 09:17 AM

Genesis 14:13 & 14. (from the Message)

A fugitive came and reported to Abram the Hebrew. Abram was living in the Oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and Aner. They were allies of Abram. When Abram heard that his nephew had been taken prisoner, he lined up his servants, all of them born in his household - there were 318 of them - and chased after the captors all the way to Dan.

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So to me - these groups (households) of people are huge! If he only counted the male servants BORN into his household (and they numbered 318...!) just how many people did Abram have?

I am assuming the 318 is ALL male. Not both genders.

And if my assumption is right - imagine what a sight it would have been when they were on the march to a new location.

Jashobeam · 01-22-2005, 11:32 PM

I'm so sorry I missed this study! When is the next one going to be and which passages are you going to study? I'm reading in 1 Samuel right now, but would love to do a Genesis study, as it's my fav. study Book

amshum · 01-22-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jashobeam
I'm so sorry I missed this study! When is the next one going to be and which passages are you going to study? I'm reading in 1 Samuel right now, but would love to do a Genesis study, as it's my fav. study Book

Unfortunately the Bible Study group I started here didnt make it past Genesis due to lack of particpation (myself included). But I am studying on my own. Sorry!

Jashobeam · 01-26-2005, 07:07 PM

Sorry to hear about it. Thanks for replying!