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  1. #16
    Registered User Peggotty's Avatar
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    does cinnamon work the same as hyponid and dci?

  2. #17
    13 yrs to get my BFP joobilee's Avatar
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    Similar but in different ways, the way I understand it. I know on one thread, sorry I don't remember which one it is but somebody said that cinnamon actually worked better with their body. Meaning when taking cinnamon they O'ed and on DCI they didn't. I started with DCI and within 6 wks of starting it I O'ed. But since then I read on a medical sight that if your insulin is above 10.5 then you are still considered IR. So that is why I am taking cinnamon also. Hoping it will lower my insulin closer to 7 or 8.
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  3. #18
    Registered User Pearl1981's Avatar
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    That someone was me I think !
    Symptoms of PCOS since 12 years old

    Hidden Content D1 Jasmin born June 2008 -conceived with inositol + hyponidd + vitamin D + Cinnamon
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  4. #19
    Registered User booghie's Avatar
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    it is suggested to avoid bitter melon for women with pcos.
    i found this on a pcos faq site- pcosfaq dot com:

    Bitter Melon: (Momordica charantia)
    This has been described as being "structurally similar to animal insulin". Too high of a dose can cause hypoglycemia, which is further evidence that it acts just like insulin. The problem is, if it's too much like insulin, then it may contribute to insulin resistance and raise testosterone in PCOS. An insulin mimic can be a good thing if it only increases glucose uptake without any of the negative effects of insulin. This may be beneficial if you have high blood sugar.

  5. #20
    Registered User Pearl1981's Avatar
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    Hi there

    I just wanted to let you know that is just a hypothesis by a girl called Mary something on an internet site, it is not actually a medical fact,

    anything that reduces sugar will in turn reduce insulin, in time.

    The most recent study in the British Journal of Science and Nutrition states that:

    "Bitter Melon (Momordica charantia) Reduces Adiposity, Lowers Serum Insulin and Normalizes Glucose Tolerance in Rats Fed a High Fat Diet"
    Last edited by Pearl1981; 07-29-2009 at 08:24 PM.
    Symptoms of PCOS since 12 years old

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  6. #21
    Registered User booghie's Avatar
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    that doesn't contradict... the rats were diabetic and fed a high fat diet so it benefitted them... these are all just studies and no one stated anything of "medical fact"

    btw, i got pcosfaq dot com from the chiralbalance website (resources - websites and books) where most of us order our dci....
    Last edited by booghie; 07-22-2009 at 03:29 PM.

  7. #22
    Registered User Leah*'s Avatar
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    Hey HerbsGirl,

    I got your PM but the site won't let me reply since I have fewer than 30 posts. So to answer your question, the DCI pills gave me constipation... My stools were coming out in little pieces...

  8. #23
    Registered User herbsgirl's Avatar
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    THanks Leah so much for answering my question!

    TMI alert!! I did notice a little constipation when I first started, but now it has mostly disappeared. I used to have alot more trouble with that, but scince I take about 1 Tablespoon of Natural Calm (Magnesium citrate) in water every night before bed, I am fine usually!
    Losing wieght down to a healthy weight by counting bites
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  9. #24
    Registered User Allic409's Avatar
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    So this may be a silly question....but are DCI & Inositol the same thing?

  10. #25
    Registered User Pearl1981's Avatar
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    Boghie I understand what you are saying Im sorry if I came across rude or offended you.

    I wanted to address the site PCOSFAQ.COM which you provided that statement from. I have been studying herbal remedies for PCOS for around 10 years and also went from being infertile to conceiving my daughter in one cycle from herbal remedies and so I know a lot of sites inside out, and that is where I recognised the information from.

    The site which mentions bitter melon being bad for PCOS as it is "structurally similar to animal insulin" is this:

    PCOSFAQ.COM states that:

    This is information that I have collected on PCOS treatments, and I wanted to share it. Who am I? I am Mary Kate Roget. I am not a doctor. I am trying to learn as much as I can about PCOS, just like many of you are. If you find an error or omission on this page, I will appreciate your comments. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. Consult your doctor before using any treatments. Many treatments listed here are extremely dangerous. Nothing in the FAQ should be taken as advice. Please use this information only as a starting point for doing more research and for topics to discuss with your doctor.

    the paragraph which you referenced was this: Bitter Melon: (Momordica charantia) from the PCOS FAQ web site:

    This has been described as being "structurally similar to animal insulin". Too high of a dose can cause hypoglycemia, which is further evidence that it acts just like insulin. The problem is, if it's too much like insulin, then it may contribute to insulin resistance and raise testosterone in PCOS. An insulin mimic can be a good thing if it only increases glucose uptake without any of the negative effects of insulin. This may be beneficial if you have high blood sugar

    The study I referenced does contradict your original statement from the PCOSFAQ web site as it shows that mormodica lowers serum insulin levels , and some other studies shows that it does so in diabetics and people with PCOS, it does not increase insulin[/B]

    PCOS FAQ incorrectly states that it increases insulin and this is in her opinion - she has stated she is not a dr and it is not a conclusion made from a medical study-


    furthermore, It does not act like insulin in a way of increasing insulin resistance or testosterone in people with PCOS, This is because it actually lowers it, as less sugar in the blood reduces insulin and reduced insulin reduces the hyper stimulation of the ovaries which leads them to produce testosterone in ladies with PCOS.

    The most recent study on bitter melon on PCOS was presented at the health conference for diabetes in switzerland which showed that bitter melon reduced insulin tesosterone and normalised cycles in 80% of patients with PCOS within 4 months

    I just wanted to add this as it is important for ladies to get the correct information as some rely on the information we put up here to treat themselves

    It does make sense that chiral balance would list that bitter melon, even though it contains high levels of DCI is no good as they do not want you to buy this cheaper alternative, they want you to buy their product. IF they are stating that this paragraph you originally quoted was from a study or being medically correct they are in breach of information.

    I hope you all are doing well in your herbal Journey
    Last edited by Pearl1981; 07-29-2009 at 08:59 PM.

  11. #26
    Registered User herbsgirl's Avatar
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    Pearl, would you please post a link to the study on Bitter Melon and PCOS done in Switzerland? I cannot find it, I did a Yahoo search.

    That sure is interesting, that 80% of PCOS woman had normalized cycles from 4 months on Bitter Melon. That is excellent.
    Losing wieght down to a healthy weight by counting bites
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  12. #27
    Registered User booghie's Avatar
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    Bitter melon (Momordica charantia): a review of efficacy and safety.


    The pharmacology, clinical efficacy, adverse effects, drug interactions, and place in therapy of bitter melon are described. Bitter melon (Momordica charantia) is an alternative therapy that has primarily been used for lowering blood glucose levels in patients with diabetes mellitus. Components of bitter melon extract appear to have structural similarities to animal insulin. Antiviral and antineoplastic activities have also been reported in vitro. Four clinical trials found bitter melon juice, fruit, and dried powder to have a moderate hypoglycemic effect. These studies were small and were not randomized or double-blind, however. Reported adverse effects of bitter melon include hypoglycemic coma and convulsions in children, reduced fertility in mice, a favism-like syndrome, increases in gamma-glutamyltransferase and alkaline phosphatase levels in animals, and headaches. Bitter melon may have additive effects when taken with other glucose-lowering agents. Adequately powered, randomized, placebo-controlled trials are needed to properly assess safety and efficacy before bitter melon can be routinely recommended. Bitter melon may have hypoglycemic effects, but data are not sufficient to recommend its use in the absence of careful supervision and monitoring.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12625217?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

    U.S. National Library of Medicine and the Natural Institutes of Health


    I posted the warning about too much bitter melon for the same reasons that you have stated -- that women are treating themselves based on this information.

    It's not clear if bitter melon promotes insulin sensitivity. It seems to just act like insulin in lowering glucose levels. That's why the study of the diabetic rats did not contradict because their glucose levels were already high from the diet they were fed.

    "furthermore, It does not act like insulin in a way of increasing insulin resistance or testosterone in people with PCOS, This is because it actually lowers it, as less sugar in the blood reduces insulin and reduced insulin reduces the hyper stimulation of the ovaries which leads them to produce testosterone in ladies with PCOS."

    If this opinion was the case, then women with PCOS might as well take insulin to lower their sugar and reduce their insulin....
    Last edited by booghie; 07-29-2009 at 11:33 PM.

  13. #28
    Registered User herbsgirl's Avatar
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    Thanks for the research you done Booghie.

    I was concerned about the Bitter Melon, because it can have side effects. I read that it can lower blood pressure. My blood pressure is already on the lower side!

    It does sound like it could be a help to some PCOS women
    Losing wieght down to a healthy weight by counting bites
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    Reached my goal weight in 18 weeks!!! Went from 218.2 lbs to 149.8 lbs!! 68.4 lbs lost! Click on link above and feel free to ask me any questions about counting bites ect for weight loss!

  14. #29
    Registered User Pearl1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booghie View Post
    it is suggested to avoid bitter melon for women with pcos.
    i found this on a pcos faq site- pcosfaq dot com:

    Bitter Melon: (Momordica charantia)
    This has been described as being "structurally similar to animal insulin". Too high of a dose can cause hypoglycemia, which is further evidence that it acts just like insulin. The problem is, if it's too much like insulin, then it may contribute to insulin resistance and raise testosterone in PCOS. An insulin mimic can be a good thing if it only increases glucose uptake without any of the negative effects of insulin. This may be beneficial if you have high blood sugar.
    It is like insulin but it does not have the negative effects of insulin. I will prove this by posting some studies after this post.

    It does not have the negative aspects of human insulin as It does not raise testosterone and it does not contribute to insulin resistance as proven by studies.





    The study you posted which shows it is structurally similar to animal insulin proves nothing in terms of having the same action as human insulin , which increases insulin resistance. Bitter melon decreases insulin resistance I have posted some studies to prove this in my later posts.

    Mary K made the hypothesis about the making testosterone levels worse, which is incorrect anyway.


    To first understand the study you must understand the mechanisms of sugar and the role of insulin.

    Basically, as I stated, and I got this information from my brother who is a doctor, it is not my opinion or hypothesis.

    Bitter melon works in two ways- lowering sugar levels and decreasing insulin. Whereby Increasing insulin sensitivity and decreasing weight.

    lowering sugar levels lowers insulin. This is because less sugar = less insulin needed to combat sugar.

    less insulin = great for PCOS > hormones are normalised.

    the studies I have posted show that bitter melon reduced serum insulin.

    That was the only reason I posted it.

    The fact that it may act like animal insulin doesnt really matter, as it still lowers total insulin anyway.

    Studies have not shown it increases testosterone like PCOSFAQ.COM seems to think, her reasoning because it is structurally similar to animal insulin. INCORRECT! It may be similar molecularly to animal insulin but it does not have the same mode of action as human insulin on the cells and thus, on the ovary.

    Lowered insulin levels in someone with PCOS means increased estrogen,lowered testosterone.

    in addition, lowered insulin also means more insulin sensitivity. This is because as the cells are less exposed to insulin, in time, they become more sensitive and reactive to insulin.

    The cells start using fat as energy rather than storing sugar as fat. Fact. That is why the subjects also lost weight on the study. Further weight loss also makes the cells more reactive to insulin.

    For ladies with PCOS, The important fact of the study is, not that it seems to be structurally similar to animal insulin, is that it lowers serum insulin in people with diabetes and PCOS. this is a good thing for women with PCOS.

    The study you posted above mentions that it is simal to animal insulin. However, that is not detremental for ladies with PCOS because it lowers serum insulin, testosterone, abdominal obesity and sugar levels.

    Ok let me break it down.

    the original post from the PCOSFAQ.COM web site and studies claim it is similar in molecular structure to that of animal insulin.

    BUT PCOSFAQ.COM stated that by being structurally similar, it will exasperate insulin resistance and testosterone levels. INCORRECT!

    That opinion is incorrect because studies have shown that it decreases insulin resistance testosterone, android fat and is equal to exercise in the function of increasing insulin sensitivity.

    That is what I was trying to say.
    [
    Human insulin assults the cells with further insulin, the cells shield themselves from further insulin and become more insulin resistant. bitter melon decreases insulin resistance.

    bitter melon reduces serum insulin. - Reduces android obesity and testosterone. Studies have shown this.
    Last edited by Pearl1981; 07-30-2009 at 09:33 AM.
    Symptoms of PCOS since 12 years old

    Hidden Content D1 Jasmin born June 2008 -conceived with inositol + hyponidd + vitamin D + Cinnamon
    Hidden Content DD2 Aliyah born November 2010 - conceived with licorice + peony + inositol + vitamin D


  15. #30
    Registered User Pearl1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booghie View Post
    It's not clear if bitter melon promotes insulin sensitivity. It seems to just act like insulin in lowering glucose levels. That's why the study of the diabetic rats did not contradict because their glucose levels were already high from the diet they were fed.

    Just google insulin resistance and mormordica charantia and you will see that every study conducted shows that it improved insulin sensitivity

    A recent scientific study at JIPMER, India has proved that bitter melon increases insulin sensitivity *

    * Antihyperglycemic effects of three extracts from Momordica charantia". J Ethnopharmacol.;(): 88 (1): 10711. September 2003. doi:10.1016/S0378-8741(03)00184-3. PMID : 12902059
    Last edited by Pearl1981; 07-30-2009 at 09:27 AM.

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