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  1. #16
    Registered User swannero's Avatar
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    Default saw palmetto and vitamins for PCOS

    Hi,
    I've been doing extensive research about PCOS since neither my gyno, diabetologist nor endocrinologist could give me a solution i was fine with. (and now i am writing a doctoral thesis on the subject!) since i have diabetes type I i couldn't take oral contraceptives (estrogen raises blood sugar levels by means of blocking insulin receptors in cells), and in years my condition was only worsening: i didn't ovulate, had irregular periods and my acne was getting worse daily.
    recently i finally managed to find more natural and more acceptable solution: i take metformine (side effects are mild, and include stomack pain which i don't have, but it can cause vitamin B deficiency, so be sure to take vitamin B if you take metformine.) i also started applying natural progesterone cream for two weeks per month instead of taking synthetic progesterone which was making me bloated and irritable. it works beautifully, my periods are regular to a day, and the cream has absolutely no side effects. also my blood sugar levels, which were orbit high due to the lack of progesterone as well as estrogen dominance are now down to perfectly normal! so, there are alternatives to oral contraceptives in treating PCOS. in fact, try not to take them ever for this condition, because OC don't solve the problem, they just stifle it, because the second you get of the OC, your PCOS will get acting again (with a vengeance) and all the symptoms you've been stifling for years will appear worse than ever!
    also, there is one thing probably not many people know about Yasmine pills: they contain spironolanctone (aldactone) as the antiandrogen, which is in fact a diuretic, and can cause severe liver damage. a natural antiandrogen which usually works very nicely is saw palmetto, but should be taken once daily in the dose of 320 mg of 85-95% standardized extract to be effective, not more, not less. if you're taking more this is probably the cause of your hair loss.
    you should also take zinc, if your acne problem is bad, 30 mg daily for the first couple of months, than continue with 15 mg daily, and vitamin B complex, especially niacinamide (as directed on the box, be sure to take app. 100 mg niacinamide (niacine, nicotinamide, it's all the same thing) daily. also, be sure to include chromium (chromium picolinate is the best solution, 400-500 mg daily), as well as vitamin D in your daily regimen, or you could just expose yourself to the sun for 10 to 15 minutes per day, which will allow your body to make enough of the vitamin D it needs, (that is, if your acne problem allows you to do so and the air where you live is not too polluted.)
    you should under no circumstances take OC at the same time as saw palmetto, because those may interact. if you take one, don't take the other.
    one other thing which helps with inflamed acne is topical clindamycine. it's an antibiotic which will reduce inflammation in less than a month. it can be found on the market under the name dalacin-t or just ask your MD to write the prescription.
    for wonderful results in reducing acne problems i recommend dr. hauschka cosmetics, all natural and very gentle. check them out on the web. what you need are products for problematic skin. if you're reluctant to try yet another product which may not work, they have try-out kits which contain cleansing cream, normalizing tonic and normalizing oil, steam bath and revitalizing mask which will last for more than enough for you to ascertain whether this will work for you or not (although i guarantee you it will, and i'm not paid for this!). i've tried so many products and absolutely NONE worked. i can't describe the relief i feel now that i can walk through drugstores and pharmacies without looking for yet another product to try. oof.

    to conclude, even if you're otherwise perfectly healthy, i urge you to try natural solutions rather than synthetic drugs western medicine offers, and which way too often does not take into consideration individual needs of patients, nor numerous side effects elevated levels of female hormones have on women's bodies.

    i hope months of extensive research i did will help others, and not just me. i wish you all the best

  2. #17
    Registered User miss62's Avatar
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    [quote=swannero;1890047296]Hi,
    a natural antiandrogen which usually works very nicely is saw palmetto, but should be taken once daily in the dose of 320 mg of 85-95% standardized extract to be effective, not more, not less. if you're taking more this is probably the cause of your hair loss.

    Hi,

    your research is very useful,I have question regarding saw palmetto...I'm sure you have articles or studies to back up the fact that if saw palmetto be taken more than the dosage it would have reverse effect such as hairloss.
    I did use saw plametto for a bout a month but only 320mg and my hair started to shed.my hormones are very sensitive to any kind of treatment .
    I had extreme reaction to bcps which most people take it and feel nothing or at least not as bad as me.
    I liked the fact that saw palmetto reduced my body hair and facial but I still doubt the cause of my hairloss.I found and article regarding saw plametto, healthy men without prostate cancershould avoid it since it would destroy healthy cells as well as cancer cells .but that was it I couldnt find anything related to hairlosss except as a treatment.

    also I wouldlike to ask you what NPC brand do you use.I tried wild yam cream and it didn't work I'm hoping to find sth that would work this cycle.
    Thanks
    --------------------------------
    symptoms:
    Acne
    mild Hirsutism
    recent hairloss
    Iregular menses
    ----------------
    Meds I'm currently On
    Accutane
    Finasteride 2.5 mg
    supplements and herbs:
    fennel+yarrow tea
    Ultimate goal:
    To find a natural solution for my pcos symptoms Hidden Content

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  3. #18
    Registered User Heidi's Mom's Avatar
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    Minia 982:
    500 of Vitex, depending on what it is standardized to (if at all), may be too much. 225mg standardized to .5 or .6 agnusides is a common dosage. The saw palmetto at 1800mg daily sounds like a lot too. Many of us take around 320mg standardized to 45% fatty acids or there abouts.
    Tif in SD

    My regimen:
    Chasteberry Extract, Saw Palmetto/Pygeum extract, Vit D-3, Fish Oil, Calcium/Magnesium/Zinc (Nature's Way), Blood Glucose Success (Solaray), Vita Lea (Shaklee)

    Married March 1998
    7 y/o daughter (Clomid), 2 y/o son (natural conception); 2 babies in Heaven

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  4. #19
    Registered User Peggotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swannero View Post
    Hi,
    I've been doing extensive research about PCOS since neither my gyno, diabetologist nor endocrinologist could give me a solution i was fine with. (and now i am writing a doctoral thesis on the subject!) since i have diabetes type I i couldn't take oral contraceptives (estrogen raises blood sugar levels by means of blocking insulin receptors in cells), and in years my condition was only worsening: i didn't ovulate, had irregular periods and my acne was getting worse daily.
    recently i finally managed to find more natural and more acceptable solution: i take metformine (side effects are mild, and include stomack pain which i don't have, but it can cause vitamin B deficiency, so be sure to take vitamin B if you take metformine.) i also started applying natural progesterone cream for two weeks per month instead of taking synthetic progesterone which was making me bloated and irritable. it works beautifully, my periods are regular to a day, and the cream has absolutely no side effects. also my blood sugar levels, which were orbit high due to the lack of progesterone as well as estrogen dominance are now down to perfectly normal! so, there are alternatives to oral contraceptives in treating PCOS. in fact, try not to take them ever for this condition, because OC don't solve the problem, they just stifle it, because the second you get of the OC, your PCOS will get acting again (with a vengeance) and all the symptoms you've been stifling for years will appear worse than ever!
    also, there is one thing probably not many people know about Yasmine pills: they contain spironolanctone (aldactone) as the antiandrogen, which is in fact a diuretic, and can cause severe liver damage. a natural antiandrogen which usually works very nicely is saw palmetto, but should be taken once daily in the dose of 320 mg of 85-95% standardized extract to be effective, not more, not less. if you're taking more this is probably the cause of your hair loss.
    you should also take zinc, if your acne problem is bad, 30 mg daily for the first couple of months, than continue with 15 mg daily, and vitamin B complex, especially niacinamide (as directed on the box, be sure to take app. 100 mg niacinamide (niacine, nicotinamide, it's all the same thing) daily. also, be sure to include chromium (chromium picolinate is the best solution, 400-500 mg daily), as well as vitamin D in your daily regimen, or you could just expose yourself to the sun for 10 to 15 minutes per day, which will allow your body to make enough of the vitamin D it needs, (that is, if your acne problem allows you to do so and the air where you live is not too polluted.)
    you should under no circumstances take OC at the same time as saw palmetto, because those may interact. if you take one, don't take the other.
    one other thing which helps with inflamed acne is topical clindamycine. it's an antibiotic which will reduce inflammation in less than a month. it can be found on the market under the name dalacin-t or just ask your MD to write the prescription.
    for wonderful results in reducing acne problems i recommend dr. hauschka cosmetics, all natural and very gentle. check them out on the web. what you need are products for problematic skin. if you're reluctant to try yet another product which may not work, they have try-out kits which contain cleansing cream, normalizing tonic and normalizing oil, steam bath and revitalizing mask which will last for more than enough for you to ascertain whether this will work for you or not (although i guarantee you it will, and i'm not paid for this!). i've tried so many products and absolutely NONE worked. i can't describe the relief i feel now that i can walk through drugstores and pharmacies without looking for yet another product to try. oof.

    to conclude, even if you're otherwise perfectly healthy, i urge you to try natural solutions rather than synthetic drugs western medicine offers, and which way too often does not take into consideration individual needs of patients, nor numerous side effects elevated levels of female hormones have on women's bodies.

    i hope months of extensive research i did will help others, and not just me. i wish you all the best
    Thanks for all this great info. Is there anything you would recommend that can actually bring high androgens down? I'm a healthy weight (though I could probably eat less carbs) but my androgens are not coming down. I too have low progestrone.

  5. #20
    Registered User swannero's Avatar
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    hi,

    i'm so glad i appear to help somebody, it took so much time to do all this research and find a solution for my problems, it's nice to see it wasn't for my benefit only.

    there are, though, some facts i omitted.

    dear miss 62,
    regarding the amount of saw palmetto you should be taking, i found dozens and dozens of texts by medical specialists (not only naturopaths) in which dosage of 320 mg daily of 85-95% standardized extract was recommended. on the other hand, just a handful of articles mentioned hair loss (apparently this side effect is not extensively enough researched) if more was taken, but i received overwhelming feedback from women taking various doses and the result was that a vast number of them experienced hair loss when they took more than the recommended dose , (or if they took saw palmetto irregularly). i thought that was too much of a coincidence, although we must allow for the fact that each person's organism reacts to various substances differently, so maybe your hair loss has different roots.

    progesterone creams made from wild yams are not what you want. what you want and need are natural progesterone cream labeled as USP progesterone cream (in accordance to united states pharmacopeial convention), formulated to contain app. 500 mg progesterone per ounce, taking app. 20 mg of progesterone in each application. the most recognizable cream of this sort on the market is Dr. Lee's natural progesterone cream, but it can be pretty expensive. there are also many others on the market, but be sure to choose one with all of the characteristics i mentioned. i use life-flo's PROGESTA-CARE body cream with measured dosage pump. (i ordered it from betterlife.com for a very fair price) and i don't even use as much as it is recommended because my body obviously doesn't need as much, and it really works wonders. this cream should also help with your high androgen levels.

    one other thing i found was amazing is this: latest research shows simple vitamin B complex, after being taken for only three months, significantly improved subjects' blood results, including LH (luteinizing hormone) and androgen levels, but also insulin resistance. after six months significant improvement was obvious in acne and hirsutism problems.

    also i saw you were taking accutane, also known as roaccutane. this is a derivative of vitamin A and one would think a simple vitamin couldn't possibly be very harmful, right? but all vitamins which are not water soluble (which include vitamin A, D, E and some others, but these are most commonly taken without serious consideration) can cause serious liver damage, or at least hipervitaminosis, which is also not to be trifled with. but roaccutane is a terrible, terrible thing, which, according to my feedback about the end results (because it is only supposed to treat severe acne, and not any other symptoms of PCOS), is simply not worth the risks. i hope the MD that prescribed this for you warned you about the seriousness of the side effects, one of which is a teratogenic effect of this drug, meaning it causes malformation of the embryo. so you should have been warned (and i hope you were!) you should not attempt to have children within two years of the end of the therapy, because this is the time it takes for it to be expelled from the body completely. brrrrrrr. i seriously recommend you think about taking yourself of this thing.
    also be careful with sage tea, it shouldn't be taken for more than three weeks, it becomes toxic after this period according to herbalists. sage is actually safer for external usage because it has antiseptic and antibiotic properties, so you can rinse your face with sage tea for better effect.

    dear peggotty,
    for low progesterone i absolutely recommend natural progesterone cream. the specifics are written above, and that should also help with your high androgen levels, but for this try also combination of metformin, app. 2000 mg daily (taken in two doses), vitamin B complex, chromium picolinate app. 400-500 mg daily and saw palmetto, with food. (dosage and concentration see above). these together should work.


    if any of you have problems with insulin resistance, i may also be able to help.

    i wish you all the very best...
    Last edited by swannero; 09-14-2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: failed to mention something

  6. #21
    Registered User swannero's Avatar
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    Default priv. message to rosegeranium

    Dear RoseGeranium,

    since i have only 2 posts, i couldn't write you a priv. message, sorry, so i'm writing you here:

    I am really happy to see I can help somebody. i was shocked when i realized how many women suffer from PCOS, and how many OBs have absolutely no idea what to do with them.

    i think i finally found everything i needed for my PCOS, but i'll be sure to check this website. thank you for directing my attention to it, as well as mailing me.

    i wish you all the luck,
    gordana

  7. #22
    Registered User miss62's Avatar
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    Thanks Swannero,
    I am pretty sure my hair loss at least part of it is due to taking saw plametto.
    about accutane:I know it's harmful and so many other things but I had no choice I did try to get off accutane about almost 1 year a go and by that time I was only on maintenace dose of 20mg every 3 weeks it still worked for me but as you said and all my derms suggested to go off ,I did and boom my acne came back and I went on bcps ,what I didnt know was that my body reacted to synthetic hormones and it gave me more side effect that accutane had.they all messed up my hormones after 3 months of trying different bcps I eneded up with severe side effects from dian 35 and today I'm still dealing with these weird symptoms.I've developed cystic acne becuase of that and I never had it in my life.so now I know I can't get any hormonal treatment for my acne.I'm back on accutane since last month and probably I have to be on maintenance dose for I dont know how long.there is simply nothing out there for my acne and believe me I tried everything from herbs to diet,antibiotics and many more.
    I'm sad,didnt wanted to be on accutane forever,it's every woman's dream to have a baby some time but for me simple acne is sth that I just have to forget about getting pregnant.
    --------------------------------
    symptoms:
    Acne
    mild Hirsutism
    recent hairloss
    Iregular menses
    ----------------
    Meds I'm currently On
    Accutane
    Finasteride 2.5 mg
    supplements and herbs:
    fennel+yarrow tea
    Ultimate goal:
    To find a natural solution for my pcos symptoms Hidden Content

    [url=Hidden Content href="Hidden Content target="_blank">
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content





    Hidden Content

  8. #23
    Registered User swannero's Avatar
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    Default accutane

    oh dear.

    i think i understand how you feel. your hormones must be totally messed up. but believe me, just two months ago i was desperate about my acne too. even my cosmetician was desperate, and she's seen A LOT in her lifetime. i had acne conglomerata, they were all inflamed, my skin was at the same time sensitive, dry, dehydrated, full of acne scars and hardened from all the poking and cleaning. and then i read the book "beauty the dr. hauschka way" and started using their products, i started applying topical clindamycine and taking vitamin B complex and zinc. all of those things you can try even when still on accutane, so if you see improvement, it's probably because of those. and none of these things is expensive, so it's worth a try. if you don't have dr. h. products in canada, look for them on the web. they have these try out packets which will allow you to see whether this is right for you or not. but it made a world of difference for me. everybody in my life noticed how much better my face looks, and i feel soooooo much happier. do try.

  9. #24
    Honorary SoulCyster RoseGeranium's Avatar
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    Hi Gordana, You're welcome. Thank you again for so much wonderful information. I'd love to get my hands on some of those studies you mention, they sound really interesting, esp the B vitamin one.

    Have you done any research on D Chiro Inositol?

  10. #25
    Registered User mps1130's Avatar
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    Hey Ladies,

    I just wanted to chime in on the Saw palmetto and Vitex discussion.

    I have been taking Vitex on and off for over two years. I found that it helped to regulate my periods. I used to take vitex with a high quality mulitvitamin, calcium /magnesium and fish oil combo and that produced regular periods. The viatmains got expensive so i wasn't as consistent with those but used the vitex and it kept them regular. About a year ago I read about Saw palmetto helping acne and facial hair growth so I tried that. The results were amazing for my acne, I basically cleared up 90 percent. As for facial hair it DEFINITELY improved I'd say 75 percent improvement. I definitely still had the chin hair and side burn issue but less rapid growth and finer,lighter hair. I ran out of the vitex for a month or so and my acne went out of whack as well as facial hair. So now for the past 2 months I've ben back on Saw Palmetto and Vitex together, the acne is getting better as well as hair growth. i still get acne, but its not the painful cystic kind. it seems to be more caused my the hair growth and damaged hair follicles that i have from continuous tweezing.

    I defintiely think the Saw palmetto makes a difference, but I am still looking for something to completely alleviate my issues!.

  11. #26
    Registered User mps1130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseGeranium View Post
    Have you looked into D Chiro Inositol?
    has lots of information on it.

    Basically, women with PCOS are functionally deficient in DCI-IPG - an inositol phosphoglycan which acts as a secondary messenger in the insulin signalling pathway. If this DCI-IPG is deficient then we are overbalanced by myp-IPG - the kind made from regular inositol and which stimulates the ovaries to produce testosterone.

    If we supplement with DCI, then it stops everything at the source, or as close to it as we are currently aware of.

    I've been taking it for only 2 weeks, but already the facial hair is slowing down and I have more energy and just generally feel better. (I stopped taking Saw Palmetto a month or two ago - I just got so sick and tired of taking all those herbs and vitamins I cut out all but the absolutely essential)
    I have just started to really read about it since visiting this board in the last week. I'm really excited about the possibility of it working! It really seems like they have come across something that gets to the root of the problem which has been where my frustration with this condition has been all along with doctors, it seems like they have a lack of education on this condition and want to just put me on BCP or other prescription medications. So I am glad progress is being made...this whole dci thing really makes sense! To answer your question, I am going to order some in the coming weeks, until then I am continuing to take Saw Palmetto and I'm going to add cinnamon since I already have a bottle forma few months back. I read on a thread that some are having the same effects from cinnamon as the dci...I still want to try the dci, but until then I'm doing a cinnamon, vitex, saw palmetto, fish oil combo.

  12. #27
    Honorary SoulCyster RoseGeranium's Avatar
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    CandyJimmyMilly,

    I currently take -
    D Chiro Inositol from pcosinfo.wordpress.com (the cheapest place to get it from and it's pure powder so it's not yet another nauseous-making pill to swallow ) between 1200 mg and 2000 mg a day depending on what I'm doing exercise wise and eating wise.

    A very good quality multivitamin

    At least 2000 mg Fish Oil a day (for general inflammation not only PCOS)
    At least 2000 mg Evening Primrose Oil a day (not only for PCOS though)
    At least 500 iu of Vitamin E to balance out the 2 above
    One cod liver oil capsule a day for Vitamin D

    400 mg magnesium each night to help with IR and also relax muscles and prevent migraines.

    Zinc sometimes at night to keep my levels up cos I tend to become deficient if I don't.

    At least 2 g of Vitamin C each day - helps with weight loss also immunity - no swine flu for me thanks!

    Vitamin B complex - has been shown to help IR

    I probably ought to keep taking the decaffeinated green tea extract, but I've run out and haven't bought more.

    I have STOPPED taking:
    Saw Palmetto - if DCI addresses the root cause of the testosterone then I don't need to treat the symptom right? So far this is working - the hair growth has slowed down even further than with SP.

    Raspberry Leaf - might take it again now and then but have stopped for the time being - if the root cause of the hormonal imbalance is addressed then ...

    Vitex Agnus Castus - As above

    Gymnema Sylvestre - If the DCI solves the IR, then no need.

    Cinnamon - I only use it occasionally in food, not religiously as medicine now

    Alpha Lipoic Acid - Will probably take it now and then, but if DCI solves IR then no need

    Chromium 200 mcg - will take one every now and then, but if DCI treats IR then no further need to take every day

    Golly what a list ... there are probably more ... I just can't remember them right now

  13. #28
    Registered User swannero's Avatar
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    Default cheaper inositol

    hi,

    (rose, sorry for not replying sooner, i was just so busy these last few days i almost didn't get a chance to breathe. about those articles: i started with a study by a croatian PCOS specialist, (i am from croatia, btw), which would do you no good unless i translated it, then followed by articles published in medical magazines available on wiley-blackwell web page (but you have to pay for it, sadly), and then, because i wasn't satisfied with what western medicine was offering (since i have diabetes type I, i can't take BCP or cyproterone acetate, or aldactone, and i consider them to be too risky for your health anyway), i started researching natural remedies available, and then just read everything i could find anywhere, so, actually, i have no clever articles to offer. d chiro inositol wise, i see you know much more than i do. this is the latest discovery, and it seems to be solving more or less all the problems PCOS women tend to have, so YEIIIIII!)

    i see most people have trouble getting DCI, and i have two addresses which offer quality supplements for REALLY moderate or even low prices (the address rose gave offers inositol for a price i don't really consider very moderate, sorry), so here they are:

    betterlife.com and puriatan's pride

    betterlife offer inositol from various manufacturers in various forms and sizes, so you will probably find what agrees with you.
    puritan's pride offer inositol in two forms: as powder and tablets, and you get 1 or 2 packs for free!
    i ordered previously from both sites and they are both reliable. i currently use progesterone cream ordered from betterlife which is great, and saw palmetto and chromium picolinate which i ordered from puritan's pride, which i each got for app. 7 dollars (100tbs chromium and 60 softegels saw palmetto) and got two of each for free! this is what i consider a good buy! and they seem to be doing exactly what they are supposed to do, are exactly the dosage i need, so i can only say words of praise for them. apparently, you can get quality supplements without paying an arm, a leg and a kidney for them. i plan to order my inositol in powder form from puritan's pride, they have it in packs of 2 oz, which is app 55g, or 55 000 mg for $12.99, and you get 2 (or 1, depending on the current offer) for free. and since daily dosage is between 1000 and 2000 mg, if you take 2000 mg daily, it will last for 27,5 days, or 55 if you take 1000 mg per day.

    best luck to all,

    swannero

  14. #29
    Honorary SoulCyster RoseGeranium's Avatar
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    Default Inositol is Different to D Chiro Inositol

    Hi Swannero,

    No worries, i know what it's like.

    Myo-inositol (the plain inositol, available very cheaply almost everywhere and which you refer to) is actually quite different to DCI. The theory goes that women with PCOS or IR or T2 Diabetes are unable to convert myo-inositol into D CHiro Inositol and also excrete any that they do have 6 x faster than normal women.

    The DCI is produced on a much smaller scale than myo-inositol, so it's more expensive I guess. But it is a completely different substance. www.pcosinfo.wordpress.com is definitely the cheapest source of DCI in the world at present. Hopefully the more people start using it, the lower the manufacturing costs will be and the price will come down, but for now, that's it.

  15. #30
    Registered User miss62's Avatar
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    Hi Ladies,
    has any thin cyster tried saw palmetoo?
    I tried it myself couple of months ago,it was great for my facial hair and body hair.unfortunatly my hair loss started the same time soI'm not sure if saw pametto had sth do to with it,since it has some anti estrogenic effects too.
    I'm desperate to start sth asap,my facial hair is getting dark again,I'm afraid to try SP again but to be honest that was the only thing worked for me.

    any advice would be great
    thanks
    --------------------------------
    symptoms:
    Acne
    mild Hirsutism
    recent hairloss
    Iregular menses
    ----------------
    Meds I'm currently On
    Accutane
    Finasteride 2.5 mg
    supplements and herbs:
    fennel+yarrow tea
    Ultimate goal:
    To find a natural solution for my pcos symptoms Hidden Content

    [url=Hidden Content href="Hidden Content target="_blank">
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content





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