"Daughterhood:" the other side of motherhood

[lugimenez]

People talk about motherly love as the closest to divine love. Ultimately, because everything in this world come in pairs so we can have a balance, I also think that nobody can truly hurt us and leave marks into our souls like our mothers. I don't remember anything said or done by any other person that could hurt me as deep. Boyfriends, bosses, friends, strangers...

I want to ask my cysters, how many of you still have a conflicted relationship with your mother and how does that affect you -- your personality, your self-image, your ability to become everything you know you can become, including your daily effort to manage PCOS.

I love my mother. But I came to a turning point with her. On my 30th birthday, I had decided to put everything behind me and only keep the good things. I had also decided that she was not gonna hold me hostage anymore (emotional and finantial), and that I had "given her," so to speak, a good share of my life: half of it, to be precise, if I get to live till 60.

But, last night, we got into a huge fight, the worst, as I remember, and it came to me that maybe it's time to turn my back, that my altruistic effort is in vain, that by sticking by her side I am doing myself more damage than actually any good to her.

But I was hoping we could share this second half of my life in peace, like two adult women who respect and care deeply about each other, not as captive & hostage, strong & weak, mother who had a dream daughter in mind & daughter who didn't turn out to be that dream. I've put up with more than 10 years of psychological abuse (since the death of my father, who was my wonder wall) in the name of filial love. But am I right? Am I right to do this harm to myself? Just so I can tell the world, "Hey, do you see how I really love her? I put up with everything. My love is stronger than all the harm she keeps on inflicting on me and her total absense of respect and care for my well being." Is this the only way I have to demonstrate my love? By making myself this opened to harm?

I don't want to turn my back.
But I can't take it anymore.
Please, help.


I had second thoughts about opening up a topic like this, but I decided to go ahead because I know we're all adults here, so we can conduct this the right way. Besides, I'm hoping you see that I'm hurting and just want to feel like I'm not the only one, just want to think that maybe there is a way out other than turning my back.

If nothing else, maybe this could be like one of those group sessions in which we all hold hands, close our eyes, and unload. Only better, because we're not strangers to one another, we share more supportive bonds than one, and nobody will ask us to hold a mirror and take our panties off. :p

Thank you.

[Little_Lady]

My mum threw me out when i was 17 because she couldn't cope with my depression. I was severely suicidal & she couldn't handle it. We used to argue all the time about nothing. Some people said we had a clash of personalities. I thought that she shouldn't have had children at all. She wasn't very maternal. As a teen she put me down a lot & we really did hate each other. She even called the police on me once & they kept an eye on me at school each tho I was a model pupil. It was just at home!

I never really felt like I could go to her with problems. She never really understood me. I've lived alone for 4years now & we get on really well. I go round to her house out of choice because I want to see her. I hope you & your mum can work through your problems. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. You have to both want to get on. Good luck x

[pink76mom]

Oh my... I think that I could write a book about this. You are right, my mother's words hurt me deeper than anyone elses. I also love her dearly. She is definitely NOT a nurturing soul and that has been very hard for me. I had very turbulent teen/early 20's. Filled with depression and Post traumatic Stress Disorder and an eating disorder... stemming from sexual abuse by an uncle. My mom just could not deal with this. She only wanted to deal with the fun stuff. She wanted to shop, go to lunch, and play a game. I love that part of her, but I also need something deeper. I feel like an idiot sometimes because I still long to feel nurtured and protected. I wish I had a mom that I could curl up on the couch with. My DH is great, but the wounds and emptiness from my mom is deep. There is not time to explain it all. I will just share with you a few of the comments that have been made to me in the last few months as I have begun losing a significant amount of weight. My goal is 128 and she says, "You can't weigh that." I say "Why" and she says, "well I weigh 130 and you've never been smaller than me" OR I was feeling a bit discouraged cuz I still have 25lbs to lose and it is getting much harder now and still feel disgusted with myself. She says "well, I can tell that you have lost weight cux your stomach is not as fat and your but isn't as big" Or when she stopped over after my mc cuz I was having a hard time and only stayed for a few minutes because she convienantly left her purse in the car so she had to leave (couldn't walk out to the driveway and get it).
She is great if you want to shop and have fun, but not if you need support and that abandonment cuts deep. I feel like there is a hole in me, and I still feel like a child looking for a mothers love somedays. Then I think that I just need to grow up and move on, I am 29!! So I try not to think about it. I try to simply appreciate her for the wonderful gifts that she does have, those gifts just aren't always what I need--a decorator, stylist, drinking buddy, lunch partners don't provide much nurturing. I need someone who stays even when things are not peachy keen. So I just usually trust no one to see my saddness when it rears it's ugly head, I am TERRIFIED of being rejected if I show my bad days to anyone. Sometimes I just have to wear a mask, I do not want to be hurt and disappointed again.

[lugimenez]

I've lived alone for 4years now & we get on really well. I go round to her house out of choice because I want to see her.

Sarah, why do you think that now you get along really well? And does she ever come by to see you or call you? Thanks much for replying.

She only wanted to deal with the fun stuff. She wanted to shop, go to lunch, and play a game.

I know! My mother is the same! She only wants to deal with the fun stuff, the successful stuff, the laughter. She is caring and endearing with other people, though...

I feel like an idiot sometimes because I still long to feel nurtured and protected.

Tell me about it... She hugs me exactly two times a year. I don't feel very encouraged to hug her. On those two times a year, I always want the hug to last longer, I always keep my arms around her when she's already stopped hugging me. :'(

She says "well, I can tell that you have lost weight cux your stomach is not as fat and your but isn't as big"

Oh my Gooood... *hughughug* First of all, congratulations on your freagin' big achievement! That is so terrific.

I'll refrain from quoting my mother because I don't want to keep reviving all the bad things she's ever said to me and still keeps on saying. It hurts enough as it is. But, yes, I can totally relate and feel solidary to you. I do feel your pain.

Thank you so much for posting. Please take care of yourself. Hug DH a lot. You're not alone.

[Little_Lady]

Hi lugimenez,
Time & space helped. I think my mum grew to realise a lot after i left home but it took her a few years. She always thought that I was the problem but once I wasn't there any more she had to accept that it was her. She couldn't blame me anymore. I didnt have to talk to her. She didn't even know where i was living. It upset me but i couldn't live like that anymore.

After i'd gone she started on my brother. I was in & out of hospital over several years because i got so depressed and she only came once or twice to visit me during that time. She used to make my condition worse. If it wasnt for my nan (my mum's mum) I would have been pretty much alone.The problem my mum has is listening. She always thinks ppl are accusing her of things. She listens too much to what her friends say.

My mum does phone me occasionally but rarely to see how i am. We only speak when we have something to talk about. I go round her house a lot to see my brother. He's 20 & we get on well. The times I see her were fine but we can't stay in the same room for too long. She'd start doing my head in.

I do love my mum. She looked after me & brought me up pretty much as a single parent. I admire her for that and we do get on a lot better these days.There was no real mother-daughter bond and i think that was the problem.

[skeeweeaka]

FROM A BOOK I'M READING...One of the most emotionally draining situations we may experience is lack of support from loved ones--be they family members, friends, or lovers. We all grow at different paces in life. When you've accelerated past or outgrown a certain level of thinking, even some of the closest people in your life may have difficulty understanding or accepting this. They may unintentionally hold you back by discouraging your dreams. At times, they may do and say belittling things that cause you emotional hurt, confusion, and insecurity.

The sad truth is that when faced with disapproval from a loved one, most people give up their innermost dreams. They abandon their hopes of flying to the heights of success and instead flutter in mediocrity, all because of bad advice.

Their loved ones may genuinely mean well but are afraid of being left behind. But others, unfortunately, are simply envious and selfish. Accepting advice from people who don't understand you is like taking a beautifully designed couture dress to be altered by a five-and-dime seamstress. You are too important to be tailored by a five-and-dime adviser.

Sis, you must be true to yourself. Respect your own feelings. Firmly but politely assure these people that you do love them and will always be there for them. But, they will have to respect the fact that you know what is best for you.

Explain that you are no longer a baby bird hanging out in a self-contained nest, that you are becoming an enchanting bird of paradise and you are ready to spread your wings. Let them know that it would make you happy if they would come fly with you, but you will no longer be enclosed.

Make a list of all the people who cause you discomfort, and the reasons why. After you've compiled your list, review and discuss it with them. let them know how much this affects you, and really try to work things out. But if they are unwilling to grant you the respect you deserve, don't react negatively. Instead, realize this plain truth: You can't change others, but you can certainly change yourself.

Remain focused on your goals. Don't compromise. you can continue to be polite, loving, and friendly, but do not share your dreams with them; just move out of their reach!

This is something that I read this week... It has helped me to cope somewhat with my mother. My mother was never caring to me or I should say affectionate...or nurturing...she never, as I recall, told me she loved me... The only attention I got was negative, when I brought home a "B"... I was the oldest of 5... I was their second mother... I grew up bitter because I had to take on that role at 12... Because of our relationship, I have a difficult time showing affection toward others and chose most of the time to just throw money at the problem and not get close to people... In essense, I sort of buy peoples love...by giving them things, etc... I am trying to change this because I have an 8 year old and although I love her to death...I am afraid that at 20 she could be one of your stories... If is difficult to let anyoen in...to let my guard down...to embrace someone physically...I have to work hard every day to just give her the little that I do... it saddens me deeply... It is a very lonely place to live... I make excused for myself day in and day out... Obviously there are other issues from my childhold...violence...molestations by others...that also have created this distrust of people...and difficulty loving and showing it... I'mn not asking for understanding or anything...just telling it like it is... Obviously their childhood is a factor in this and my trying to understand that in my mother has also helped me...

If anyone has any ideas...please let me know...

[sg325]

I think that sometimes the best thing to do in certain situations is to let it go...By that I mean to remove yourself from the thing that is destroying you. I also think to myself sometimes that I am too hard on my own mother, cutting her off from my life, that I can't understand what she has gone through in her own life, but when those moments come, I push them away, remembering her HATE for her own children. I don't know what makes a mother, but I do know what makes a bad one. And another thing, has this happened to you, people think that when a child has a bad (or no) relationship with their mother, they are being selfish and petty, not understanding what the mother went through, had to survive, what they were thinking at the time? I think so many people, especially those who are parents, scoff at my explanation of my family relationships, thinking I have no idea what it takes to raise a child.....
While I must admit it must be difficult, I also believe that once you have a child, it is your responsibility to do WHATEVER it takes to give them the best quality of life, your needs are not the first priority now...Am I wrong? Do I want for too much? You be the judge, but I will say this; When faced with poison in life, keep it as far away from you as possible. Forgive, but do not allow them to become a part of your life again is my policy....

[LaurAnnHere]

My mother is extremely distructive to herself and everyone she knows. She tries to drag everyone into her misery. She created her own misery through her lifestyle choices. She suffers from mental illness, but it started out as a way to milk the system. I believe that she has digressed to the state she is in now due the prescription drugs she has abused and misused over the years. She gave me to my grandparents and they raised me. Unfortunately they continued to raise her as well and she expected me to pick up where they left off after they died. I have a hard time refusing my mother. I usually make up excuses. Recently she managed to get a car and just shows up at my house. I wish I had the nerve to cut ties with her. Most people in my family and close friends think I should. Most of the family has. She was abusive to everyone who was ever close to her. She manipulates those who don't know her until they wise up. If you make her mad she "tries to kill herself" and leaves notes about how it's your fault. When I was a little girl and the police would be sent out to her house b/c of a suicide attempt I would wish she was dead. Thoughts like that made me feel guilty, still do, but how much can a person take? Well, for some reason I keep taking it. She has caused me so much pain both physically and mentally and she still tries to inflict mental anguish on me. It still works some, but I'd never let her know that. Then she tries to play it off to other people like she was the worlds best mom and her children are such ingrates. One of my younger brother finally took a restraining order out on her. She was threatening to kill him and his wife. Leaving these messages on his answering machine. She kept telling people that she could get away with it b/c she is crazy. He didn't worry too much about her until she went to the pawn shop to try and buy a gun. He did drop the charges later when he knew for sure she wasn't going to be able to get one. Then to get even she takes him to court and sues him for money she gave him years ago. I think I've spent so much of my life being afraid of her that I don't know how to stop. In my head I know she can't hurt me, but my heart remembers when she could. She begs me to let her babysit Jamie. That'll happen when hell freezes over.

Now, so many strangers think that I'm a bad person b/c I don't clean my moms house for her or mow her lawn. I'm a terrible person b/c I don't visit when she goes into the hospital after an overdose. I'm tired of outsiders butting their noses in. Everyone who stays around a few months ends up taking my side. They begin to see the truth. Plus, when my mother has sympathy, it encourages her and she becomes worse. It's a pattern I've seen too many times.

I know my story is a little different, but not all mothers are good. So many people think that b/c my mother is this way that one day I'm going ot wake up and be this way. It's just not true. I'm a really good mother who loves and wants my son. I'm sure that I am not going to be perfect and there will be times when my child thinks I am treating him unfairly or that he hates me. But I will never hurt him.

[lugimenez]

(After a few long minutes starting at Laura's signature, giggling and smiling...)

Sarah, it sounds like I'm somewhere near where you were at age 17. You had your mom's mom...

I wish I had someone to run to, cry to, or I wouldn't even have started this thread in the first place. I can't support myself with the money I make. TIME & SPACE. I STALL. There's gotta be a way out other than under some bridge. I want to scream. Vanish.

Gosh, you girls don't know what it's like. You could be thinking: "So, money is the problem? Get out there, woman! Get another job!" It's hard enough to keep the freelance gigs I currently have. 3-digit. Impossible to live in a 3-digit budget. It gets better sometimes, for a month or two a year, but that's it. It's so bad, I've been having some thoughts and ideas that I probably should NOT.

(Is that one baby? More than one baby? God, are they cute... Hope...)

Explain that you are no longer a baby bird hanging out in a self-contained nest, that you are becoming an enchanting bird of paradise and you are ready to spread your wings. Let them know that it would make you happy if they would come fly with you, but you will no longer be enclosed.

My mother takes it -- what's written above -- as:
1. selfishness of us (me and my brother) and
2. leaving her behind, because we're ungrateful bastards.

So, by her selfishness, she wants us to:
1. forget about out dreams, if that doesn't include us as remaining as toddlers forever (she calls it our selfishness) and
2. let our souls struggle under her domain, because that seems to be her only idea of gratitude.

It's a vicious circle.

I can state the above because that's exactly what I observed when my brother left. He left as soon as he started earning enough to support himself. He went on to live some absurd-ish teenage love story from the past, said he was gonna marry the girl, then changed his mind, but still got the apartment -- then by the time he started doing some major repair in it, it was too evident that he wasn't gonna come back home just because he decided not to get married anymore.

She got a little upset about it -- I heard her going on and on for a few months --, but then she just quiet herself down about it. I mean, what else to do under the circumstances, right? And this is her favorite son we're talking about. She's got a pile of negativity towards me that stemmed from my father's actions to her. He's gone (God bless his soul, my wonder wall), and I'm like his butt and face left behind. She still takes it at me all the things she'd have liked to tell him, but never did. My brother was NEVER into this mess...

It's too complicated. And, to make matters worse, they're (still) like a team (they've always been), and I'm on my own. They (together) also love to patronise the crap out of me, like I'm some lost little teenager who can't earn more than $300 a month, but would love to, because she would like to party party party.

There's gotta be a way out... *sigh*

sg325, thanks for stopping by.

You, too, Laura -- again. "All mothers are good..." It's a universal (un)truth I must absorb.

[lugimenez]

And, you know, before Kat comes here bringing Freud by the beard just to see me, I thought I'd add (even though I think it's almost unnecessary to say) how this relationship sabotages my very own health and desire to go back being as pretty and healthy as I was 11 years ago. There's so many things to take care of when you're trying to bring PCOS under control... It's just too much on me. When I can find the time, and the willpower, thoughts of what she's gonna say or that she's coming home send me straight to my bedroom, just so I don't have to see her and she doesn't have to see me, and we don't have to bump into each other and fight. This as of now.

I won't even go into her blaming me and pointing me the big finger of failure (and the money she's spent over the years on me trying to lose weight or getting laser sessions for my facial hair, yada yada yada). And making fun of me, often in the presence of other people -- especially people who lost major weight. Damn...

Of course I am not saying: "Oh, it's because of her that I don't ... and it's because of her that I can't ..." No. I'm too old to "blame mom and dad" alone. I'm perfectly aware that's also MY lack of strenght or strategy or both to FIGHT HER and once and for all estinguish her negative influence in my life.

But that she's got a big fat influence on my present situation, that I can't deny. Because she does. And there's a small chance that by coming here, reading other people's thoughts, and putting my own together, I may eventually accomplish what I want to. So thanks for... You know.

[LaurAnnHere]

(After a few long minutes starting at Laura's signature, giggling and smiling...)

(Is that one baby? More than one baby? God, are they cute... Hope...)

Sorry it took so long to respond. Thank you so much!! Just one baby, my little Jamie . I just can't pick one pic to show off and I love the comical ones the best. I just love babies being silly.

[lugimenez]

Who doesn't! Your little Jamie is the cutest. I love seeing all the babies around here. It's like we're all in a maze with many doors to open, we're busy bees running from one door sign to another, coming in and out with so much to say and hear -- Depression | Do you have this problem? | Check in for the ladies losing it big! -- and then at each door we open, there might be one of those cuties -- or many of them! -- to mush us all entirely and get away with our worry wrinkles and make us smile and remind us there's still plenty of reason to. They're SC's very own garden. The goofier, the better, the more, the merrier. Your animation is just that. Now go tell him. :p

[pink76mom]

Lugimenez-
I really relate to your posts. There are days when I feel positive about my relationship with my mom, and then there are days that I don't. I try so hard to just accept the gifts that she has and to look for what she can't give me elsewhere. When I am down (like the past few days), this is really hard!!! It is like the child in me keeps creeping out when I feel sad and then I have a really hard time being objective.
Just know that I am thinking of you and hoping that your situation somehow improves. I understand how it is to feel trapped, and that sometimes we can't find our way out. I believe that in time you will find your way out!!

[skeeweeaka]

In time, some how, we will all find our ways out...

[ppfleiger]

Am I allows to jump in with the bad Father relationship? Swap the words "mother" for "father" and you could be describing my relationship with my dad. I was 19 my father kicked me out of the house and we spent 5 years not speaking. It wall all around my decision to attend college (I know, most parents WANT their children to attend college - not mine). It's not even worth the stories of selfishness, verbal abuse, and control - the reality is parents are human and some of us have parents with some very human flaws.

Like the saying - you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family.

After a little time and some wellbutrin (my father - not me) we were able to slowly start to have a semi-normal relationship again. I still made and continue to make life decisions that he doesn't like, and as an adult I get to do them anyway whether he likes it or not. I think the trick is to focus on the areas where you can have a positive relationship, and elimate the areas where you have a negative one. IMHO, it is better to have a small, meaningful relationship than a big ugly one.

If that means that certain topics are off limits, then they just are. Parents are just that - parents. They may or may not be best friends, shopping buddies, financial supporters, cheerleaders, or life coaches. OTHER people's parents may be their best friend, yours may not. My father and I can not discuss money, politics, or career decisions, among other things. I don't even dare go shopping with him because the second that wallet comes out I know we're in for the beginning of world war three. So we both agree to avoid those situations. If one person brings it up, we now have this agreement we reference - 'you know what, we agreed not to talk about that, it's too hard.' And that becomes end of subject.

I am sure the avoidance tecnique is unhealthy in someones phychology manual. but in my opinion you have to set your own boundries, and if your parents cross them, you give yourself permission to leave the situation. One day at a time..