I just came from an international adoption seminar of Russia and Ukraine.

[mauramae]

I am from Ottawa, Ontario. I just came from an international adoption seminar that featured Russia and Ukraine. I was interested in Ukraine because it was $12000 less expensive. The total cost for Russia is $45,000 and the total cost for Ukraine is $35,000. The seminar was held by an Adoption agency and the Reverend who runs the agency really discouraged adoption from the Ukraine.

One of the speakers was a lady who recently adopted from the Ukraine. She brought her 14 month old son to the class and he was adorable. She told us that everything that could go wrong in Ukraine did. She went to the Ukraine to pick up her daughter and had to say no to her because the child tested positive for hepititis. If I understood her correctly, she had to stay in Ukraine for a total of 4 months waiting for another child to become available. Apparently, food and lodging there is very cheap, but most of us work and can't take that kind of time off! Another disadvantage is that you don't get any medical history on the child.

The more I look into this, the more discouraged I become. If I want to be safe, I should stick with Russia, but the cost is enormous! I was told that the National Bank of Canada gives international adoption loans. The loans could be up to 15 years at prime + .75%.

I would like to hear stories from people who adopted from Ukraine. How long were you forced to stay in Ukraine and how many trips did you have to make?

[Calantha]

I've never adopted from Ukraine, but Amy (dna) has a gorgeous Ukranian son I'd just like to point out that in international adoption, medical histories are hard to come by, and when you do have them, they're usually questionable. I also question the credibility of a person who runs an agency that does Ukraine adoption but "discourages" it.

[LadyBugg]

I would just like to say $45,000!!!! Holy Moly! Our Liberian adoption is costing us $18k at the very most. I think it will end up being more like 16 or so. I know that our international adoption workshop, they were very frank as well. (We live in Alberta). They said our provincial government told them they must share with us all the realities of international adoption, and it's not all pretty. We likely won't ever know the real birthdate of our child. And yes, all the medical history they give is likely incorrect or falsified. I take some comfort knowing that the Canadian Embassy will have their own medical done on her before my dh can leave Africa with her. The way I see it is that once she's ours, she's ours. If our 14 month old was to get sick we would just deal with it, and I think our adopted daughter deserves the same chance in life. Just my $.02

[mauramae]

The price range they gave me from Russia was $35,000 to $45,000. I always plan for the worst case scenario.

They broke down the costs for me:
Payment 1: 6000 - Agency billable hours + File processing fees
Payment 2: 6000 - File translation fees, legal fees, and $660 billable hours from the agency.
Payment 3: 6287.50 - All inclusive trip to Russia for both you and DH
Payment 4: 6287.50 - All inclusive trip for the doctor's trip to Russia
Payment 5: 1288 - Doctor's fees
Payment 6: 6287.5 - Your second all inclusive trip to Russia
Payment 7: 4070 - Consulate Registration and Post Adoption Reporting (whatever that is)

The rest is buffer if something goes wrong.

I am scheduled to attend another seminar. This time the country is China. The cost is $22000 all inclusive. It may seem obvious to just go to China, but I have to deal with acceptance issues from my family. My DH's family say that I should go the in vitro route. I have been put on a waiting list for the fertility clinic, but I am told that it takes 5-6 moths before they call me for an appointment. Also, I have things going against me. I don't menstrate and I am 80 lbs overweight. Right now, we are just exploring our options.

[dna]

Hi

My son was adopted from Ukraine at 15 months old. Ukraine is not for the faint of heart. If you are expecting an easy in and out especially right now it may not be the way to go for you. Our adoption was door to door just under 3 weeks long. We were extreemly fortunate at the time even though we also had some rough spots as this never happens anymore. We have no medical history on his Bio parents but we know their names. We have some confusing history from the orphanage. I chalk it up to him now being a surprise !! Becuz what we have that we can rely on is from 15 months old when he went to the doctors here. We used Canadian Internation Adoption Services (am I allowed to say that ?) out of Toronto and had no problems with them.

I have heard good/bad with Russia and the health of children, same as Ukraine. FAS, FAE, global delays that sort of thing but its no different from other countries. (other then the higher instances of the Fetal Alcohol which makes sense when you realize vodka is cheaper then pop)

Anyways and needless to say we are not adopting Ukraine this time around. If things were a little more stable we would in a heartbeat I just cant take my son on a trip like that and there is no way I would leave him behind for 'x' amount of months.

If you have anymore questions PM or email me dna _ ukrainefor1 @ yahoo. com (no spaces)

Take care,
Amy

[dna]

It may seem obvious to just go to China, but I have to deal with acceptance issues from my family. My DH's family say that I should go the in vitro route.

It may seem obvious ? Its never an obvious choice to 'go' anywhere when it comes to adoption. Its a totally personal choice how you become a family. If your closest family has 'acceptance' issues and its something you are considering becuz they wont be able to accept a child from a different race then that again if your choice. Some members of my family completely dissagree with my choice to adopt within my own race let alone outside of it. "Why would she want to do thaaaaat ?" is one comment I got about my *first* "white child" adoption. I can imagine the comments about my future Chinese child ! but in the end I dont give a crap .. this is *my* family and I love it just the way it is and this is exactly the way you need to feel about it .. hands down .. secure in your decision

I am in no way attacking you or anything I know sometimes my writing style comes across as harsh please dont take it that way, my point is that its your family and you have to live with your decisions. Adoption is a beautiful way to create a family.

I love that you are educating yourself and going to these seminars. I think its absolutely one of the most important things you can do.

Anyhew...off my soapbox now...

[dna]

p.s. I think family sticks their nose in the way we build our families too much..especially when it comes to imposing race issues and medical procedures...do they have any idea the commitment you have to make to both international adoption or IVF ? good lord for me IVF was too big of a step to do that all that medication I react badly too anyways ?! LOL for me getting on a plane and going 1/2 way across the world was easier...

LOL then again I am a big baby ...

and

I totally commend people who do IVF

[mauramae]

I am not ruling China out. I can adopt two Chinese children for the price of one Russian! I do care what my Mom thinks, because I want her to be the wonderful grandmother to my children. My husband shares your opinion. He keeps telling me that it is our decision and I shouldn't consider my Mom's wishes because it is our life and not hers. Logically, I can see that this is right, but emotionally, I am afraid that she won't accept my children and that my children will grow up with self-esteem issues because if it. I wonder what Dr. Phil would say to all of this? He would probably tell me the "WAKE UP!!!". LOL

[dna]

You mom sounds like what my mom started out like...now she is all on board with everything and I mean she still has her unacceptance points with certain countries with her own reasons but not China doesnt help my friend has 2 wee ones adopted from China and they pretty much have her wrapped around their fingers !

I know what you mean about $$ but my mom is all about the 3rd baby now (my 2nd isnt home yet) LOL and says 'its just money' which better mean she is footin the bill !

That much $$ to me for the Russia program is way out of most peoples leagues...I get it but I dont get it ya know ? I agree that you can adopt twice with the China program vs once for the Russia program...

Keep us updated in your progress, I am interested in what you decide

And of course am here for any more questions !

[Calantha]

Wow, I'm wonderring what kind of treatment the doctor is getting that his or her all inclusive trip costs as much as it does for BOTH you and your DH!

Amy really has given you the best advice anyone can. Do what is right for you and your family. It's been my experience that when you are secure in your decision, extended family comes around. Though I am often tempted to say to a few of them "What would you want to procreate with HIM/HER for?" In laws are fun ;P

One thing that really worked well for me was to have a very frank discussion with the family I was concerned about (my father has been known to be quite racist in the past). Before we started our first adoption, I really just put it all out there. My child is not going to be blue eyes, blonde hair. My child is not going to be treated poorly. I very much want you to be in his life, but even more I want him to be in my life, so you have a decision to make. I can't promise you will have the same experience as me, but I can tell you that my father is one of my son's favorite people in the world, and the feeling is quite mutual. I never expected to have my father calling on a Saturday to ask if he can babysit, even if I'd had a bio child! I never expected to have to put a picture of my father up in my child's room cause he missed his papa when he was sick and couldn't go visit. My life is full of unexpected blessings, but the joy in my father's eyes these days is something I never thought I'd see in a million years.

[Supermom12499]

My husband and I got married late in life and since we were having problems getting pregnant we decided to explore adoption. I chose Estonia because it had caucasian children, my husband who will not fly did not have to go, and the costs were much less. Generally they have older school age children but because we were willing to take a sibling group we got a boy age 5, a girl age 4 and a boy age 2-1/2. These were there ages when I went to pick them up. I know it seems like a lot but I would not change it for the world - they are wonderful children and luckily none have emotionaly problems or health problems. When adopting an infant you never are quite sure if they have any issues simply because they are too young.

Most of the foreign countries do not have such liberal people in the government that try to get the kids back to their natural parents once they have been proven to be poor parent material - unlike here in the US. So many of the children from foreign countries, although they may be a bit older are not completely screwed up - emotionally.

We are continuing to try and get pregnant but if we don't I am still happy. It has been 3 years now and my kids all speak English, the youngest is in Kindergarten. They don't really remember any parents but us even though we have shown them the tapes before we got them and when I came to get them. THey speak very matter-of-factly about the fact that they are adopted - and they really see no difference between themselves and any of their peers.

Good luck to you in your quest.

Debbie

[mauramae]

<quote>Wow, I'm wonderring what kind of treatment the doctor is getting that his or her all inclusive trip costs as much as it does for BOTH you and your DH!</quote>

I laughed when I read this!! I was thinking the same thing. Anyhow, Russia is not an option for me because of the cost. Unless, of course, my Mom is willing to fund it. Russia is very tempting because I saw an adopted Russian girl and I swear she looked like she could be my daughter. Anyhow, I was looking foward to a Chinese adoption until I spoke to my Mom and she poo pooed all over it. The question is: How am I going to enjoy being a mother when I am in huge debt? I think $22,000 is more acceptable to me. All I have to do is earn half of it and get a loan for the other half.

Debbie: I am willing to accept siblings. I would prefer it so that I don't have to go through this again. Unfortunately, here in Ottawa, Ontario, we are very limited in the countries we can adopt from. The government butts into EVERYTHING! I am not sure that Estonia is one of the countries available, but I will look into it. If you don't mind my asking, how much did it cost you for the three children? Oh, yes, and congradulations! I can only imagine how it feels like to finally have children.

Amy: Thanks for your advice. It is actually what my inner voice is telling me. I will let you know what I find out after attending the "Adopting from China" seminar.

I will definitely keep you posted on my decision.

[dna]

p.s. I feel your pain about what countries Ontario lets you adopt from .. its very frustrating !

[mauramae]

The Adoption agent told me that Ontario only allows you to adopt one child at a time and you have to wait 18 months in between before you can start proceedings for the next child. You would think that they would try to keep siblings together and if a couple is giving enough to accept a sibling group, then why not? Furthermore, IVF should be covered by medicare!!!

[Supermom12499]

The total I ended up paying for all three kids was about 30,000 which included my travel expense to get them, all the government fees, my home studies, paperwork fees etc. I really lucked out because the US has a adoption tax credit of 10,000 per kid so after the credit it was practically free to us.