Which came first? Bipolar or PCOS?

[shotbyastar]

Hi all,

I'm new to Soul Cysters, but not to PCOS or Bipolar. After reading many of the posts on here, I am amazed at how prevalent mood disorders are with PCOS - I just never knew. My endo had told me that my hormones had an effect on my moods, but had pretty much left it at that.

I guess what I'm wondering - for me personally, as well as for anyone else who wants to share - which came first? Is it like the chicken and the egg scenario? How do you know which is which?

My personal background: I was a very depressed child. We're talking suicidality as young as 7 or 8. I was always morbid. I was a late bloomer in terms of puberty (compared to friends), and at about 12 I became so severely depressed I was practically non-functional and I also became anorexic (to combat the weight of puberty). I got one period at 13. Then, it stopped for years.


Beginning around this time, I remember mood swings. I may have always had them but just don't recall - but I do really remember having them. I was told at 12 I had a mood disorder, NOS (not otherwise specified). I was also told I was anorexic, but denied any and all treatment. I didn't have an involved parent, so no one looked after me about either the anorexia OR the absent periods. I never knew it was abnormal. I was very, very thin - but as my mood shifts escalated, so did my weight start to as well. At 16, I hit my lowest point as a teen, again non-functional. Despite not eating, at 17 I started really gaining. I was still technically anorexic, but I was packing on the pounds. At 18, I had my first kidney stone, and at 19 I was told I had PCOS. I had been told I was bipolar (type I) a few years earlier, and I was put on Depakote as one of my treatments, which I now understand is known to cause IR. I wish I had known!

My early 20s were just awful - in and out of psych wards, no care for the PCOS or kidney stones or endo or anything...and finally, this past year, I got a confirmation of the PCOS dx, as well as a full work-up. All through my late teens, early 20s I went without AF - I went four years straight without one. My moods were so labile (changeable), and I lost many opportunities in my personal and academic life.


I'm now 25 (about to be 26). My depression is again hitting an all-time low, and I have stopped having AF again. I'm again without insurance. I'm off all psych meds (but not by choice). I have elevated prolactin, parathyroid, and testosterone, as well as vitamin d deficiency.

I have a family history of both bipolar and "women's problems" - I don't know my mother, but I know she was messed up psychologically and also had a hysterectomy in her early 30s. On my dad's side, he's bipolar, and his sister has an undisclosed ovary problem, as well as some endocrinological issues. My mother was obese, whereas my dad's side is extremely thin.

I guess I just always assumed the bipolar was separate - but is it? Does anyone here have any insight into this issue? Anyone believe that their PCOS and bipolar are forever entwined, or vice versa, that they are completely separate issues?

I don't know what to think anymore.

[Sweetface]

My mother is bipolar but she denies it. She is on synthetic hormones and they have always made her looloo. She tried natural and was too mellow so she went back on synthetics and went nuts again, but she likes her mania.

Sounds like you have not found a decent endo. If you can fly to Irvine, CA to Jannet Huang www.centerforoptimalhealth.org or com and get treated by her. Most folks I know that have severe bipolar or mood disorder NEED to be around other poeple, they are lonely and have hormonal issues too, but their MD's never treat the hormones, just pile up the antipsychotics. One was a good friend of mine who since like you since childhood was dx as depressed, suicidal, bi polar, anxiety - whatever they could dx....and once she moved in with people at age 67, she went off meds. All of them. She needed people, not drugs. After she had a support system she didn't need medicines....and her thyroid med helped as it should finally.

Do you have people in your life? Do you live alone or with people, healthy people? She fought hard with me "I'm not alone! I neeeeeed my antipsychs! I'm chemically depressed." Oh how we would fight over her condition. Then I moved away and found her a place to livee with poeple and that is when she healed. She needed ppl. That was it...basically when love is missing from someones life, it can make people nuts.

Find others if you dont have that. And then get hormones checked by a real good doctor. I think all mental illness is a result of hormones, personally. Hormones are chemicals. Chemicals that effect other chemicals. Dr's know so little about hormones, and itsh arder to balance hormones than it is to rx antipsychotics.

[Emma'sMom]

I just was diagnosed with bipolar 2 (I guess it is a less manic form of the full blown bipolar). I have been having issues with depression and such since my teens (I am now 33) and it took having a breakdown a few weeks ago to get the correct help. I have a 3 yr old daughter and she is the reason I am not in the psych ward.
I really wonder if they (Drs) will ever find the true link between PCOS and "mental" issues.
Thanks for letting me vent.

[pal]

My pdoc pretty much told me that "you just get born that way." Tending towards bi-polar is pretty much genetic. She also says that it seems to be the same genetic components that affect hormonal issues (like PCOS or diabetes) and mood issues like bi-polar. So, most current evidence is that there's a strong connection between PCOS and bi-polar. Lucky us!

Whether you can learn to control your inborn emotional response does, however, also depend on environmental factors...like your upbringing (did the people close to you handle their emotions well, accept your strong emotions and teach you good ways to handle and express them) or how stressful your life situation is/has been in the past. One of the problems with being bi-polar is that your close genetic relatives (like in parent/s!) probably are also bi-polar so you were likely to have had a stressful, highly emotional childhood and a pattern of unstable relationships.

That's where people come in now, like Sweetface mentions. Find stable, emotionally accepting, people to help you. If members of your own family can offer that, great...if not , look elsewhere...

Bi-polar and PCOS are both treatable conditions. (Get a doc who knows about mood issues and one who knows about hormones, and get them to work as a team.) Lots is know about moods and there are alot of drugs and alternative treatments available to get them under control. Treatment is a process, though, so it may take some time. You've got to recognize the problems caused by being bi-polar, accept the diagnosis, and take responsibility for doing what it takes to manage it.

And when all else fails, this forum is a great place just to vent! There's others here who understand how you are feeling.

[R0xyg4l]

My older brother and father are bipolar. I don't have an official diagnosis but have been dx with anxiety and depression. PCOS runs strongly on my dad's side of the family. I believe that it's all genetics. I don't think one came before the other but they've both have always been there.

[ChrissyJo]

I'm sure the PCOS came fist in my case. Started my periods on my 9th birthday and have been hormonaly jinxed ever since. I had a rough childhood and learned to down myself on a regular basis. I was diagnosed as depression as a teenager and batteling anti depresant and mania until I was correctly diagnosed as bipolar. So for me it was the PCOS. But my mom is schizophernic and I think my dad might be Bipolar he shows signs. Well, now I am good and confused because I could have been messed up in the head and then my ovaries got cycts. Sorry I'm trying to be funny. I wish I knew what was going on with me. Seeing a therapist and for some reason I think she is against me. if she asks me what my goals for therapy are one more time I am going to flip out. I already told her i want to be normal and not hate everything, do any other Bipolar people feel enraged to the point of hatred really easily?

[thincyster85]

I think Bipolar may come first - this is because the neurotransmitters in the brain send messages to the hormone glands about what to pump. A problem with the neurotransmitters messages means confusion at the hormone level.
These are just my thoughts. They are definetly intertwined though.
It's interesting that treating biplar can worsen PCOS (depakote),
and treating PCOS can worsen bipolar mood swings (certain birth controls).

[Bethann]

I doubt they're related, personally. One is an insulin sensitivity disorder, the other is something that appears to be structurally wrong with the brain--at least according to the most recent research. The effective treatment for bipolar seems to have little to do with pcos.

In my experience, and not to offend anyone else here, pcos is annoying, and I do worry about my diabetes risk, but it is not nearly as serious and as life altering as bipolar. If I ignore pcos, it will not kill me (at least not any time soon), but bipolar will. So I focus most of my energy on dealing with bipolar, and sort of ignore the pcos, managing with diet and exercise but not worrying a whole lot about it.

But this is all just my experience, others' may be very different.

[thincyster85]

In reply to the previous posted - remember that not all PCOS girls have insulin problems but some dysfunction that hasn't been determined.
For those insulin resistance-something structurally wrong in the brain can cause insulin resistance.

[Bethann]

For those insulin resistance-something structurally wrong in the brain can cause insulin resistance.

Really? I'd be interested to read about this--particularly about where in the brain there have been differences observed. I think the new stuff coming out on brain function with the availability of functional MRI's is fascinating. Bipolar differences seem to be primarily in the hypothalmus--if PCOS related issues are showing up there, that might suggest a more concrete link.

[pal]

I strongly feel the pcos and bipolar are connected. I have been pretty much able to control the PCOS through diet and exercise, but still had huge mood fluctuations that I couldn't always control. The mood swings get worse depending on my diet (alot due to hypoglycemia that turns me into witch women, in my experience.) Exercise tends to improve my moods. Whenever I've been able to lose alot of weight I have huge mood changes, usually going manic. Also, a few excess pounds tends to make me more emotionally stable, but then tends to bring on depression episodes (partly because I'm not happy to be fat!)

I'd love to see more research done on this. I'd love to have scientific evidence to prove what/how/where the disfunction in hormones and/or brain occurs.

[Shejayd]

Personally I was diagnosed with bpII about 3 years before my PCOS diagnosis, I had really bad depression in my tweens, and it continued up until I started on Metformin. No antidepressents worked for me. The last straw for meds were when DH and i were TTC and my Psych insisted i be on Topamax and seraquel together, i was a vegtable, then i read that topamax can cause sevear birth defects, and i went off the medication. 6 months later i was put on metformin and havent had an issue with my bp since, so assume my bp disorder was from IR.. As i am much better now.

[mamacat01]

Wow all this is so interesting. I went on Wellbutrin years ago and went into a mania phase. I literally lost it- I don't know how on earth I didn't end up in a ward. It was really bad. I vowed never to take a SSRI again and they only put me on it because of my IBS, she said it would help the brain-gut connection. My mother HAD to be bipolar and my brother had it (he died 4 years ago), but was really out of control for a 31 year old man.

My new doc said mania can be brought out in bipolar patients with anti-depressants. I don't have highs and lows but just normal and then depressed and my pms & period area is a nightmare. I don't what mania classifies as but if it's intrusive thoughts, panic attacks and constant suicidal feelings, I am there.

What is metformin?

[Bethann]

What is metformin?

It's an insulin sensitizing drug, technically for type-2 diabetics, but used with success in a lot of PCOS women--it can help with fertility, weight issues, etc.

If you're bipolar, SSRI's need to be used carefully and pared with a mood-stabilizer. Hypomanic states can be very difficult to diagnosis because they don't have the obvious signs of a manic state--spending huge amounts of money, poor sexual decision making, etc.

I'm not sure if your doctor is a psychiatrist, but if s/he isn't, you really want to see on to sort out whether or not you're bipolar--it makes a big difference in terms of effective treatment.

[mamacat01]

Hypomanic states can be very difficult to diagnosis because they don't have the obvious signs of a manic state--spending huge amounts of money, poor sexual decision making, etc.

What is the hypomanic states? I might have that. She referred me to a well known hospital. I feel scared I won't be able to be helped or locked up forever. I don't feel like I can be helped but it might be part of the panic.