calling all NPC experts...

[scarletakb]

I started using NPC around Dec 17th.. I used it three days, and got AF.. so, I stopped using it for 7 days.. then started up again with the plan to use it 21 days on/7 days off for 3 months.. well.. two weeks later, I got another AF...way tooo sooon!


So, I decided to change to 14 days on 14 days off cycle as recommended here. ... I started using NPC on CD 15.. it is now CD23, and I started spotting... again...way too soon.

So, what kind of adjustments do I need to make? currently I use 1/4 teaspoon 2x a day. My suspicion is that I am getting TOO much progesterone. I do have a progesterone deficiency because I never get AF without some sort of progesterone supplement.

so, what do I do? Do I.....

1. take 1/8 teaspoon 2x a day?
2. 1/4 teaspoon....but only once a day?
3. keep the dose the same.. just start it 5 days later.. so, I would start on CD 20?
4. cut the NPC out altogether???

Just for additional information.. I have also been taking Vitex, saw palmetto, and milk thistle since Dec 17th as well.. and I have been doing Atkins for 1 month.. so, maybe my hormones are adjusting so that I don't need as much progesterone...

Please throw your ideas out there for me, so that I can figure this out..

[20032B]

I am no way an expert.

Maybe I should use your creme. Do you mind me asking where did you get yours from. I bought mine from Rainbow blossom, a natural store here in Kentucky for $29.00.....no results.
I used mine for 14 days. Days 13 and 14 I had brown spotting.

So I stopped at Day 14 and nada....
Mika

[scarletakb]

Sure.. I bought my from Walmart! yep.. Walmart... and it was only $12.00! One thing that helped me is to actually measure the amount I use... I have a 1/4 teaspoon measurer.. and I fill it, and level it off.. then I use it on a different part of my body everyday..

[angela r]

Hi Scarletakb!

You can't overdose on NPC. You may want to double the dosage for a month and see if that works them wean back down to your normal dosage. I believe that I read in one of your post a while back that you had ovarian cysts. It is probably just your body getting regulated.

I would use it every day and stop when you are having flow. As long as you are spotting then continue with the NPC. But if you have flow every other week then I would stop the NPC for a few months and start again.

It may take 3-4 months to see a pattern. The pattern that you want to eventually see is to be using the NPC 2-3 weeks and off one when having AF. Sounds like you are on the right track. I know it is frustrating at what our bodies do to us.

Here is a good book on NPC by AnnA Rushton and Dr. Shirley A. Bond "Natural Progesterone" and has a foreward by Dr. Lee

Good Luck!

[scarletakb]

angela,

I am sorry if I sound confused.. but.. when I dont' use the NPC.. I never get any bleeding at all.. so, when I do use it.. I get bleeding way too soon... so, wouldn't that mean I am getting more than my body needs?? I don't understand why I would double it? then wouldn't I really be getting too much progesterone? I hope you don't think I am a dolt.. but, I really don't get it...

[angela r]

Scarletakb,

I don't think you are a dolt. That is the beauty of natural healing. Our bodies are constantly changing with everything that we do to it. I think it is your body just trying to normalize. I don't think you have given it enough time. NPC is not a wonder drug, just like anything else it may take up to 3-4 months to get it under control. You may want to stop the creme and all medicines and see a RE to be retested. I am sorry I am not much help.

[Maureen77]

I'm not sure why you are getting bleeding so soon after starting NPC. I do know that spotting is not related to too much progesterone, the body releases progesterone on it's own only if you have ovulated.

And this is why I want to add one important point of information -- if you use NPC before you have ovulated, you will not ovulate that month. Just like the progestins in bcps, NPC will stop the egg from releasing. So it's important to start it once you have ovulated, use it for 14 days, then stop to bring on AF (to mimic a regular cycle).

If our bodies worked the way they were supposed to, the empty egg sac would provide the progesterone for the second half of the cycle until it drops abruptly, thereby signaling AF to come.

I've learned a lot from Dr. Lee's book and highly recommend reading it: Dr. Lee Premenopause

originally posted by angela r -
The pattern that you want to eventually see is to be using the NPC 2-3 weeks and off one when having AF.

Angela, I'm pretty sure Dr. Lee's book said this would prevent ovulation - but it is a good protocol to use for several months to reduce ovarian cysts. Then once you want to ovulate, you follow the 14 day off, until ovulation, 14 day on cycle? Of course some people's cycles are different, mine are much shorter than that.

[scarletakb]

Hi Maureen...

I just wanted to add some additional information. It wasn't just spotting... I got a full fledge AF...Also.. I never ovulate, at all.. so, as I am starting this new year off.. I'm kind of taking three months to get my body healthier.. diet/exercise/herbs.. etc. so, I have been actually trying to supress ovulation to give my ovaries a rest from trying.. also, I understand it allows the cysts to heal.. just like being on Birth control would.

I'm still trying to figure all of this out.. here are a few things that I know...

1. I naturally produce very little or no progesterone, as I never ovulate, and I never get my period on my own.. only with NPC, or prometrium. so, I know without a doubt I have a progesterone problem.

2. when ever I add progesterone.. I do get AF.. but, it is never a withdrawal bleed... meaning.. I never get to finish my dose.. be it in pill form or cream form. Technically, I should take the progesterone for a certain amount of time.. then stop. It's the stoppage of progesterone that should cause AF to come. right??

3. the one time in the last two years that I actually ovulated.. I got AF 8 days after ovulation... hmmm.. again another sign that I am short on progesterone.

so.. the big question is... what is causing AF to come while I am taking progesterone?? The only thing I can think of, is that, maybe I am giving my body just enough progesterone to make it think I ovulated.. but, not enough progesterone to keep my levels high enough to prevent AF from coming until I do a withdrawal from the cream. Does this seem to have some logic to it?

I am taking Vitex, and dong quai which should help balance my hormones.. but, I've only been taking them for 6 weeks, and they may not be built up in my system yet.

So... I guess my next step would be to seek out some higher strength progesterone cream... right?

[Maureen77]

Gee whiz, I'm not sure - Ole Dr. Lee never covered that specifically in his book! Hopefully someone else would have some ideas here.

Your theory does seem to make sense since you laid it out that way - which progesterone cream are you using? and what dosage? He does say it's "harmless" at dosages higher than you may need. Indeed when Provera or Prometrium are used they are at 100-200mg/day as opposed to the regular NPC dosage of 20mg.

He does recommend a "physiologic" dosage (the amount your body would make on it's own) for 4 to 6 months to see if your symptoms balance themselves out. He said it takes several months for a progesterone deficient woman to store enough in body fat tissues and reach the normal amount that her body would make after ovulation.

He does say if your period starts before your chosen day, stop and start again at day 10-12. The first few months may not be regular because again, you are making up for a long term deficiency. He also recommends you could take a double (40mg/day) dosage to see if that will bring you up to regular levels.

[Maureen77]

just found Dr. Lee's Healing the Ovaries section:

*take a liver supporting and detoxifying herbal formula that includes some or all of the following herbs:
Bupleurem, milk thistle (Silybum marianum), barberry or goldenseal, burdock root, yellow dock, dandelion root.

*take an ovary healing herbal formula that includes some or all of the following herbs: burdock root, cramp back (Viburnum opulus,) licorice rott, dandelion root, Vitex, red raspberry.

*take a good multivitamin-mineral daily

To Restore Ovulation:

*manage stress
*avoid very strenuous exercise and low calorie diets
*take Vitex (follow directions on container)
*use NPC on days 5-26 for 3 cycles to temporarily suppress ovulation. On the fourth cycle, ovulation will often occur

Avoid:

*birth control pills
*fertility drugs
*talcum powder in genital region
*dairy products
*feed-lot meats (eat only free range organic meats free of drugs and pesticides)

[scarletakb]

hmmm.. I guess that makes sense.. I didn't know that it took some time to build up in your system.

currently, I use the NPC from Walgreens.. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the name brand. But, I do know that the strength is 480 mgs per ounce... and I'm using a total of a half teaspoon a day (split into two 1/4 teaspoon doses)... do you know if I can get a heavier strength?

Also...on your herb list... I think I have a good start..I am taking the milk thistle.. also, I'm going to be doing castor oil packs as well... I just have this feeling my liver is all clogged up from the fertility drugs I took...

for the ovaries.. I do have the vitex, and I drink raspberry leaf tea everyday... and I've thought about the licorice... so, maybe that is something I can add...

And, I of course take my daily multi-vitamin...

I've tried to do the 21 day cycle of NPC... I wanted to do that to heal my ovaries.. but, I ended up having AF visit really early.. my cycle was only 2 1/2 weeks long.. I'm wondering if I should just go back to trying that, and see what happens once the progesterone gets more built up in my system..

Thanks for all your help!

[Maureen77]

That strenght is about the same strength that he recommends. With dosage being 1/4 teasp. is equal to 20mg dosage.

However, he does only recommend certain brands as being effective:

http://www.johnleemd.com/resfornatpro.html

[scarletakb]

I'll have to check my brand at home to see if it is on his list.... so, you think I should just continue on the dose I'm on?