Thinking of clomid? Give soy a try cd 5-9...

CherylC · 06-25-2002, 09:28 AM

Hello all,

Just wanted to share this...perhaps it might help one of you...

I am a thin cyster who is Oing every cycle except that my cycles are very long. Of the last 6 cycles, three of them were between 40-42 days. Anyway, I was just at my gyn who gave me a prescription for clomid to move O earlier in my cycle to improve egg quality and help me to ttc.

Anyway, it just so happened that this past cycle (before my doc appt), I started trying to take advantage of the isoflavones present in soy. On cd 5-9, I drank soy protein isolate (mixed with milk) in the morning. The phytoestrogens in soy are though to act in a manner similar to that of drugs like clomid. In other words, clomid (and the phytoestrogens in soy) have anti-estrogen like properties. They fool your body into thinking that your estrogen levels are low. This causes a release of FSH and LH which helps to stimulate follicle production.

Well, I gave this regimen a try and believe it or not, I O'd on cd 14 the month...my first time ever. Up until this point I ususally O'd between cd 20-27. This cycle my pre O temps were very stable and now I am 5 dpo. Unfortunately, I missed BDing at the right time...I didn't really expect the soy to regulate me that well.

FYI, I bought Soy Protein Isolate powder from Walmart. It is in a yellow container by the vitamins. I only took about 1/3 the recommended daily serving, however, depending on your weight, you may need to go for the whole dose to get the full effect of the anti-estrogen like properties of the soy. (Similar to needing a high clomid dose.) Also, my gyn said that clomid is most effective when taken in the morning, so you may want to try the soy in the morning as well.

Best wishes,
Cheryl

P.S. I had my doc appt on cd7 and didn't mention what I was trying with the soy. I'll have to ask him about it...

Ajani · 07-01-2002, 07:38 PM

Great information! Thanks for sharing.

LSGMSU1 · 07-02-2002, 06:35 PM

Cheryl,

Thanks for the info. I'm on CD 6 and I'm trying it for this cycle. Maybe this, along with my Rx for met which I'm getting on Monday will be just what I need. I'll let you know if it worked.

Elizabeth67 · 07-12-2002, 11:37 AM

Hi Cheryl

Thanks so much for this info. I took the full amount on cd3-7 and yesterday I O'd for the first time in 4 years. I owe my "O" to you

I was suppose to start on clomid in october but thanks to you I dont think I will need to. My BDay was july 10 and I oed on the 11th so i feel this was a bday present from god and you too!

Thanks Again

giberange · 07-12-2002, 11:53 AM

cherylc: how many follies do you have on your ovaries? i know that my body wants to O each month, but the cysts are preventing it from happening (or they are too small and none are growing large enough to mature and release). will the soy protein isolate help with this? i wonder. i am willing to try anything naturally so i do not have to use clomid.

LSGMSU1 · 07-12-2002, 04:37 PM

Cheryl,
I am on CD 16 and have had my 3rd day of EWCM. When I'm Oing normally (haven't O'd at all since February) my BBT rises around CD18. I'm not quite getting my hopes up because my BBT is still low but this is the most normal EWCM I've seen in a long time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If this doesn't work this cycle I will try a higher dose. I only did 1/4 cup in skim milk because of my height and weight.

powerpuff · 07-12-2002, 04:46 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Thanks for sharing this--it sounds just too interesting! I'm now CD2 and can't wait to try this...
I also saw soy insoflavon in tablet form at Wal-mart. Do you think they'll be effective as well?

CherylC · 07-15-2002, 09:10 AM

Hi Everyone,

I'm so glad that someone else has had success with this soy thing. I took it again this cycle on cd5-9 and now I am on cd12. My temps have been really stable again so I am optimistic that I will O again on cd14 or near there anyway. For me, stable temps at the beginning of a cycle are very positive and ususally mean that I will O on a reasonable cd.

Powerpuff,
As far as tablet form, etc. goes, I honestly have no idea. However, I would be interested to know if it works b'c I think that the soy mixed in milk is kind of gross.

LSGMSU1,
I am not sure what your ht and wt are, but I am 5'8" and 123 lbs. For me, 1/3 worked out well.

giberange,
I honestly don't know how many cysts I have. When I was diagnosed in Dec 99, I took bcps for 1 yr before going on met 500 mg. Now I have been on met for about 1.5 yr. I don't know if the soy regimen will help you specifically, but I can say that the soy should help you produce more FSH earlier in your cycle which should help with follicle growth.

Best wishes to all,
Cheryl

LSGMSU1 · 07-16-2002, 08:20 AM

I think it worked. Check this out.
http://www.FertilityFriend.com/home/1663c/

I also made a bread with carob and buckwheat farinetta and am now on synthroid. Looks promising, doesn't it?

CherylC · 07-16-2002, 01:43 PM

LSGMSU1,

Hey, that's GREAT news! Your chart certainly looks like you O'd. I am so happy that it has now worked for others...okay so, including me we have 3 soy protein isolate converts/success stories.

Maybe I should do an info-mercial...LOL! Okay, just kidding...

In hindsight, the concept seems simple...similar action as clomid, etc....why not try taking it cd 5-9. However, it took me quite a while to make the connection.

Anyone else out there give it a try???

Cheryl

Elizabeth67 · 07-17-2002, 11:24 AM

Hi Cheryl

Thanks so much for the info. Today I am 6 days past O and I am gonna get a p4 test done tomorrow. I am really tired the last couple of days. I have been taking naps which is very rare for me, I dont know if I am fishing for preggo symptoms but hopefully it worked. Me and DH Bd'ed at the perfect times. I'll let you know my results if I am preggo or not in a little over a week.

Thanks Again
Elizabeth

BTW- I took the full amount for five days and it does have the same action as clomid. I am usually really wet and tons of ewcm and this month it dried me up quite a bit. Hopefully not too much. If this month, I am not preg, I plan on taking Robitussin with it next month.

Cammie16 · 07-17-2002, 11:37 AM

Dearest Cysters,

Please be careful in using soy products.

The phyto-estrogens in soy products are seldom segregated into the three estrogens (estradial, estrione, estriol).

For those of us overweight cysters, many of us find ourselves to be "estrogen dominant." (I have twice the max "in-range" amount of estrogen in my system.) One of the reasons is that fat (adipose tissue) creates estrogen, specifically estrodial. Elevated estrodial is part of a metabolic process which causes ovarian and breast cancer. The elevated estrogens in our system also cause a reactionary measure in our ovaries to elevate testosterone.

For me to take soy products would be like taking steroids, or straight estrogen. I'd put a 1960's East German wrestler to shame.

For thin cysters I think this is a very viable method of regaining balance. But for me, it would be disasterous.

The BEST of luck to each of you on which ever therapies you choose.

Cammie

CherylC · 07-17-2002, 11:58 AM

Cammie,

I can appreciate your concern for all of us here on this board.

However, I wanted to point out that the plant estrogens have a much much weaker effect than your own natural estrogens. These plant estrogens bind to your estrogen receptors and PREVENT/reduce your own estrogen from binding to the receptors. Since these plant estrogens only very very weakly activate your estrogen receptors compared to your natural estrogens the net effect is a lower estrogen response.

Since the plant estrogens do block your natural estrogens they are considered to act like anti-estrogens, VERY similar to the action of clomid.

Thus, for those cysters with high estrogen levels I really don't see it as taking a lot of extra estrogen.

While I am not a medical doctor, I do have my PhD in molecular biology and have done some research into this area.

Best wishes,
Cheryl

giberange · 07-17-2002, 12:40 PM

I HAVE ALSO BEEN DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH INTO TAKING/EATING ESTROGENS. FOOD IS A MUCH WEAKER FORM OF ESTROGEN (AS OPPOSED TO MANY HERBS THAT ARE USED FOR FERTILITY SUCH AS DON QUAI, LICORICE, ETC). SO IT IS OK TO EAT THE SOY ONCE IN A WHILE (AS CHERYL RECOMMENDED- IT IS ONLY FOR A FEW DAYS OF THE WHOLE CYCLE). OTHER FOODS TO CONSIDER AVOIDING (SINCE THEY PRODUCE ESTROGEN IN OUR SYSTEMS) ARE: GARLIC, APPLES, GREEN BEANS, CHICKPEAS, SNAP PEAS AND DATES. I AM TRYING TO COMPILE A LIST OF ALL THE ESTROGENIC FOODS, SO IF ANYONE KNOWS OF OTHERS, PLEASE FORWARD THEM TO ME.

Bertiebugg · 07-18-2002, 12:55 PM

okay I wanted to try this soy thing because we are waiting for a year to try any fertility drugs... so anything I can do to get pg before then woudl be great! So I went out and got some... I went to this really popular Health Store here... I asked the lady at the information desk where I could find the soy protein isolate powder... she took me to the soy products and showed me the soy protein powders... then she told me that to find the one I wanted I had to look in the ingredients... so I picked on that is soy protein shake made by gensoy and the first ingredient is IP Isolated soy protein... so I am asuming this is what I need! I mean to work at this information desk at this health store you have to know your stuff.... so I guess this is the right stuff... if anybody thinks I might have grabbed something totally wrong please let me know....