ABumpyGal

Squidge,
I have a couple questions if you don't mind. I don't want you to feel that I'm making you my "Queer Dear Abby" or anything offensive like that, but since you've lived these things and I haven't I thought you might have some words of wisdom. Any advice at all would be appreciated more than you know!

My gay BIL is going through this again as we speak Everyone's always known since he was a young child that he was gay, we all just waited for him to mature sexually and come out. We figured it wouldn't be that huge of a deal for him as he already has one out brother and his entire family is very supportive and gay positive.

He went through the "homophobe" stage about his senior year in highschool. He even dated a girl. Many people thought, "Well, maybe we were wrong about him". Partner and I knew better. One day he used the f*gg*t word in front of me and literally brought me to tears. I grabbed him by the shoulders, looked him in the eye and asked him, "why? why do you hate yourself"? He spent some time up at his gay brother's house and came out not too long after that. I'd like to think that standing up to it helped, but I think he was just ready.

Well, he's been trying dating. He's a very attractive, but arrogant and picky man. He hasn't had much luck and is internalizing this. Now he's decided he "doesn't want to be gay anymore"... as if it's a choice of being a member of a club or something!! I know he's hurting terribly, but I honestly don't know how to support him and don't want to say anything to make it worse. Any guidance would be appreciated. And PS... indeed, he is gay. We've had enough deep convos for me to descern this with certainty.

Second issue is my PCOS best friend. I think she is testing the waters to come out. She's very, very butch and I aways assumed this would happen someday, but she's in a relationship with a man right now and I'm afraid she's wanting to 'come out' out of her frustration with dealing with him. I also want to support her as much as possible, but the only lesbian friends I've ever had were WAAAY out of the closet so this is new to me. I'm mortified of saying "the wrong thing".


Sorry to hijack the thread... especially my favorite one of all, but Squidge's comment brought it to mind and I just feel so badly for BIL especially. I'd like to comfort him, ideally, but I have no clue as to what to say.

ANY and ALL advice is heartily appreciated!
Thanks fine folks! (((hugs)))

__________________
Me (33)/Michael (3o)
Together for almost nine long, happy years!

First PCOS dx: 1989
Supplements: One A Day Weight Smart, B Complex, Biotin, Pantothenic Acid (B5), B12, Saw Palmetto, Vit C, Vit D3, NAC, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Chromium Piconolate, Cinnamon, Magnesium, EPO, Zinc Gluconate, Green Tea
Diet: "Modified" Zone plan

"You don't love a woman because she is beautiful, but she is beautiful because you love her" -Anon.


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squidge63

It isn't an easy question to answer as all of us are different. Even though I became homophobic i still inside knew deep down I was gay. So the more I thought about being gay the more straighter I wanted to become, if that makes sense. If anyone dared question me about being gay as they thought I was, I would get so angry. Sounds like your BIL is going through similar reactions, usually my friends would just let me calm down, the only thing I can say is be there for him, mention maybe that you have friends who have been in similar situations.. it will be hard as I know I would get so upset if someone thought I was gay. I too had problems when I first came out, it took almost 4 yrs before I got my 1st girlfriend. Some of it was due to me being scared, as for many years I went out with guys. I also got knocked back more than once, the "Oh i just see you as a friend nothing else" after leading me up the garden path... or going to meet someone who then turned around and said "Oh is your best friend gay I really fancy her" after emailing and texting me to meet up... I did actualy wonder if I would have been better off going back into the straight world of dating, but decided against it as deep down it wasnt who I was. Does he get on with his brothers, maybe they could help, or make them aware of how he is feeling.. It isnt easy coming out at first, and it is scary and a very confusing time. If you can just be there for him, let him know that it's ok to be gay and feel confused about if he has done the right thing, coming out of the closet is a major occurance and upsets the equilibrium so to speak... it's a great feeling when you come out, a great relief, but then it's like.. ok what do I do now, where do i go, will women/men fancy me, will people hate me because i am gay, will i lose friends (if you do then they arent really friends ..) and if you are not a very confident person then this feeling is tripled... I am lucky I had my best friend to listen to me, and often she came to gay bars with me, or would see someone and say hey what do you think of her, but in a nice way if you know what i mean... she actually has come out now and is in a relationship and is very happy, although she does miss men and still fancies them... I am not sure if any of this will help, but dont be scared to approach him about it as I do know what he is feeling. You have had deep convo's with him so I think you will do just fine in supporting him, maybe go to a few gay bars with him.

Again with your butch friend, try and go on a girls night to a mixed gay bar rather than throw her straight into the "lesbians" ..lol maybe start a conversation about have you ever fancied someone of the same sex.. and take it from there, if she says no then obviously you will have to maybe delve a bit deeper with her feelings and tell her that it is ok, many straight women have fantasies about being with another woman even if its only a kiss.. if she says yes she has fancied someone of the same sex then maybe ask her why she doesnt do anything about it... you are a smart cookie and caring person and you will know how to support your BIL and best friend, and you will pick up if they are uncomfortable about any conversations and you will figure out which route to take, much is trial and error, but I hope that maybe something I have said will help. The major thing is to listen to them and see what you can pick up on from what they are saying.

Good luck, take care and let me know how things turn out.. and feel free to ask questions anytime I don't mind.

Squidge xx

__________________
-------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

squidge63

I know where you are coming from on the shaving... I did sometimes go through the oh god why do I have to have a beard (mainly in my straight days and as my beard was jet black I had a wicked 5 o'clock shadow..lol).. I can remember as a kid watching my dad shave and thinking I wish I could do that, but then when I was little I also thought I would grow into a boy... and wanted to.

Since I have evolved I love my beard and am usually sporting a goatee and 'stache in various stages of growth as usually for hospital appts i shave my goatee or beard (whichever I am sporting at the time lol) as it does look odd when they call out Miss XYZ and I stand up with beard.. mind you because of my age (42 next week) I am now called Mrs .... lol My beard now is mainly gray/white and some black, but often i like to try and match and dye my 'stache and goatee blonde, not that it works very well lol. I havent shaved my 'stache for a year now, just dye it every so often lol and of course trim it, as it bugs me when the hair curls under my top lip... lol

Recently I felt that my testosterone or free testosterone was low as I didnt feel like me, and I put that down to the two implants of zoladex I had in sept and oct to thin my endometrium so that it could be lasered or scraped out. In men it is used to reduce their testosterone for certain cancers, and I am sure that it also lowered mine as I didnt feel like I normally do. I still felt masculine etc... but there was a difference as if I was missing something. I think that the implant is definitely out of my system now as in that respect I am feeling back to my self again...

Took this photo just now with 2 to 3 days growth


Same in this pic a couple of weeks ago when I got myself a new suit for New Year, as my partner will be arriving in the UK on the 28th (my birthday .. a great way to start my day ), for a couple of weeks. Had shaved a couple of days before for another hospital appt.

__________________
-------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

ABumpyGal

Hi Squidge!
Oh goodness, thank you so much for taking the time to answer me! The problem with BIL has been such a millstone about my neck since he came out. He's come to me sometimes for "deep talks" about men and dating and I always have to preface it with "now remember, I only know OF gay male culture. I dated men in a straight culture, and that can be two different things". I HATE how I can't understand perfectly, but there's nothing I can do about that! I always did my best to be supportive of him, to the extreme really, and we'd talk for hours and hours at a time... with me always having to say how hard it was for me, as a 99% straight late teen dating. That I couldn't begin to imagine the difficulties faced from so many directions when one comes out. I felt... inadequate. But at least I listened without judgement. I tell myself that to make myself feel better Men, sadly, are men however and giving advice on that front was always easier. It just seems like many gay men, at least the "macho" types he's into, are men even further distilled. Sadly he hasn't had much action due to his pickiness (fear? I wonder sometimes?) and arrogance. His one sexual experience was a disaster! That counselling session took nearly 12 hours... poor boy

I have definitely been giving him space, so I think you're spot on with that advice! Sadly, at this same time he's having major, I mean MAJOR mental issues cropping up and they do run in the family. I'm bipolar and I recognize very clearly many of his behaviors and something he said the last time we went out resonated with me it nearly made me cry. Out of worry, I said something about it to MIL (they are an open family, so these things are talked about freely) and sadly I found out why all of his past mental health professionals didn't work out. They thought all of his problems stemmed from his homosexuality And this in a major metropolitan area in 2005! No wonder he's loathe to try therapy again!!! Oh god do I feel for this boy! I'm having to give him space though just because of this as he's going hypomanic and I fear it may go all the way to mania. I explained that I'm not angry with him, but that I can't be around people exhibiting symptoms similar to mania, or I'll "pick it up". He apologized, but looked so hurt. I begged him to get help now... while he can still walk in with dignity and before it reaches the point he's dragged somewhere screaming, out of his mind, and confused.

That whole situation is eating me up inside. I can admit that I've always had a soft spot for BIL since he was a boy of 10 when partner and I met. His charm, wit, and flamboyance is beyond compare. The first night I met him he actually asked, "So, are you and Michael really getting married?". "It looks that way," I replied. "Can I be in the wedding? Can I?!" "Well of course! You'd probably be an usher dear." (whining)"But I don't want to wear a suit! I want to wear a dress and be pretty!! Can't I be the flower girl? I'd make a GREAT flower girl, don't you think?" And at this point he picked up some tinsel rope from the Christmas tree and threw it about himself like a feather boa! Now how could you not LOVE a child like that? I told him he could be whatever he damned well pleased, but we might have to fight his mother on that. "Oh Mother just doesn't understand many important things! You'll learn that sweetie". I remember that verbatim! Now what 10 year old calls 24 year old women "sweetie"? Oh I love him so!

He used to love to play "dress up" and SIL and I would dress him up in outlandish dresses, complete with sock breasts and heels, and he would dance about lip synching to songs or singing, "I'm so pretty, oh so pretty, and witty and GAAAAYY". He was at least 12 by this point. I think somewhere deep inside him a transsexual or a drag queen resides. Some of the first friends he met on his own at the gay club were female impersonators and they LOOOOOVED him! Sadly he couldn't get over his whole "I want a manly man, if I wanted a woman I'd be straight" thing. The way he says it though sounds so stilited and forced. As if he's afraid what we would think of him or something. I wish he'd know better than that, as we have tried to be as supportive as possible, but I realize that can come from within too and leave it be. Basically I'm VERY careful with him... with what I say, do, and the like. I know he's at a fragile time in his life and I don't want to make things worse for him, yet I try to hide all this "being careful".
YES!!! I think this is just it and you nailed it soooo well Squidge! He's a gorgeous boy, really he is, but his arrogance + his looks scares people away. He came close to having a boyfriend, just what he wanted too, but sadly he was a professional rich-boy junkie who lived grandly off of mommy and daddy's money and BIL, while still tempted, showed the maturity to leave that alone. I think the heartbreak of that was the beginning of the end for him. I remember having to have hours of pep talks about how attractive he really is (he, of course, doesn't see it [sigh]) and how being "pretty" is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing is obvious, but the curse comes because people are intimidated by you. You can end up going home alone, despite your great personality and charm, not to mention your looks, just because people will think, "Oh what would s/he want with ME?" and be too intimidated to approach you. I learned this the hard way when I was young when guys would approach me YEARS later, when it was "safe" because I had a boyfriend or whatever, and tell me that they always had had a crush on me but thought I'd never have anything to do with them. This mystified me as I thought I was a beast!! And thus another generation grows up with devestated self-esteem... it's enough to make me cry!

Sorry I'm extra-super verbose on this, I really am, but it's been weighing so heavy on my mind for about a year now. I think you hit the nail on the head though. Sadly I think I built up his self-esteem a bit too much which made it all the easier for him to get frustrated. We've been going to clubs, both as a group and he alone, for about a year now and he's only met one (unfortunate no less!!) man thus far. He's come close on many occasions, but things wouldn't work out for one reason or another. I think he's terribly frustrated as he's VERY goal driven and is approaching getting a long-term mate like getting a career. He hates the whole idea of "dating", and while I understand very well, it just usually doesn't happen the way he's wanting it to. No matter what partner or I say about this he refuses, as that's what he wants dammit, and that's what he'll get. Well.... good luck with that! He's internalizing all this and is ending up feeling worse and worse. Women, of course, find him irresistable and I can see his thought process. There's even this girl at his work (that, I'm sorry, but i want to kill!) who "specializes" and has a kink about "converting" gay men. GRRRR! BIL says she's "very, very cute and nice" and well.... I can see where that is going, or might have even gone. Perhaps that's why he quit his job there? Who knows! Oh I could just kill girls like her!!!! And boys who do the same thing with lesbians, although thankfully, at least the ones I've met, seem like they would be less susceptable to such a thing. They'd probably beat them up! Or at least give them a little talking to!
He gets along very well with my partner, but he's straight and BIL is very into labels right now, frustratingly. My partner majored in Psychology in college though, genuinely cares, and is great to talk to. They've spent many, many hours going over things, especially when he very first came out. Now, sadly, he seems to be developing this prejudice against "straights" (I REFUSE to use the "breeder" word. How ridiculous! As if partner and I are going to breed, for example, and he knows that damn well!). He calls straights, well at least us and he sees us that way, as "your kind". THAT DRIVES ME INSANE!!! When things calm down for him, we're gonna have to have a little talk! He knows a little of my past with women and sexuality, he should know I'm really an "other", and goodness knows his brother isn't exactly a "roman road" if ya know what I mean... yet he insists on labelling us. I think it's a phase he's going through and it feels very, very angry to me. So I'm leaving it be until it calms down, or he pisses me off enough (and I hope that doesn't happen).

The other brother, the gay one... well, that's an odd story really. He's a nasty, nasty person. He has NO empathy for example and has no problem crowing about it, sayigng that empathy is a "weakness" that will get you nowhere. All that matters to him is material success and he will use people mercilessly to get it. He uses people in general, constantly. He's in a "long term" relationship now, but those of us in the know know that what it is is that he is using this man for his money and nice house. Yes, he is that bad. We lived with partner's parents for a year or so when this BIL still lived there and he would abuse the younger children, including my BIL, horribly. I'm talking bodily throwing them up the steps and the like. I'd get into screaming matches with him over this, but it would only make it worse. This is the BIL that BIL in question (wow, that's confusing! sorry) will sometimes go visit and is trying to get advice from as he comes out. All of us siblings ground our teeth, but said nothing as we knew he was going through a rough time and needed help and if he could help him, well...

But the more BIL is around this evil BIL the more evil traits he picks up He's become more selfish and snarky (he's always been very sensitive and caring). He's also become very materialistic, but then again so has that whole family as of late; partner and I excepting. The worst was when BIL came down to talk to me very upset... other BIL's "long term mate" had basically hit on him and was asking for very inappropriate things (sigh). BIL was very hurt and upset, didn't know what to do, and I think he looked to his brother's relationship as some dream ideal that he could have someday and that dream was now smashed. I felt so bad for him. He went there for Thanksgiving holidays, but I'm not sure how much help this BIL will now be for him.

There are some good signs however. He's been asking every week lately if we are going to the club (the gay one of course, it's the only one we go to now). At least he's willing to get back up on the horse, as it were, because many times he's said he would never go again out of hurt. Sadly my physical and mental health (and car!) just haven't been up for that and that's really too bad, because you never know when he might meet that somebody. I try so hard for him, but even I have my limits! I'm hoping for this weekend, but things still aren't looking too good. We introduced him to clubbing slowly, going to "straight-ish" clubs first as I feared the men would eat him up! The club we go to now is really a "gay" club, but on the night we go it is a mix of anything and everything. We try to go with him as often as possible, dragging him if we have to! I wish we could go every week, or that he would go alone more often. I think driving in the city is a bit much for his anxiety though, and now that I REALLY can't drink due to this new med I'm on I have no problem being the driver. I need more practice getting over my fear of driving anyway! Now if my 15 year old car would just cooperate...

I do so appreciate your advice! This poor boy has been through the wringer lately. Even losing a job due to his homosexuality (sadly in a carefully crafted way that cannot be proved in court, but it was obvious! I DO NOT make those kinds of accusations lightly!). He never did have many friends to begin with, but he did lose a female friend he was very close to because she accused him of sexual harrassment (please!!!) and he was out in that workplace and not everyone was accepting. You can connect the dots, and the way many intolerant folks think, "Well, you KNOW how THEY are!!". He quit before they could fire him in that instance. She used to be his best friend, but turned on him as she fancied him (???) and well... duh! I never liked that girl, as she hit on my partner right in front of me and in front of her supposed boyfriend! What a piece of work!! But BIL is very, very sensitive and she hurt him very badly. I swear if I ever catch her... it won't be pretty!

I'll heed your sage advice and continue to give him space as he sorts things out in his head, but I'll always be there for him if he needs me, and let him know such. I'll do my best, but I'm always mortified I'll say the "wrong" thing! The very least I can do is listen and be there.

It's the oddest thing. She had this lesbian friend that I sadly never got to meet as I was in "hermit" mode at the time. She sounds like the coolest person in the universe! And she just looooved my friend, and this was when she was 300lbs and felt like dirt. This girl would actually whisper "subliminal messages" into my friend's ear if she spent the night that she really was a lesbian and that they needed to be together (awww!). She saw how her current boyfriend treated her badly and hated it, and felt she deserved better.

Anyway, this girl moved to Texas to be with a girl she met online. My friend was inconsolable and I thought "hmmmm". They had known each other six months, tops, and no matter how cool she is or how close... to react that strongly? I had my suspicions, but never, ever force people's sexuality or question it and so I left it be.

Now this girl is back in town, but my friend has no way of getting back into touch with her and it's driving her MAD!!! I've been on the lookout for what I'd imagine the girl to look like at the club, but as I said, I've never met her. This is definitely the club she'd be going to though, and she loves clubbing, as this is the only goth night at a gay bar in town. She's there somewhere and I aim to find her somehow!

Anyway... I was talking to my friend about my conflicting sexual/gender issues one night on the phone, as we had just been to the club and it was really fresh in my mind. Out of the blue she cuts me off and says, "Dana, wanna f*ck?" in a totally serious manner. Now we joke around all the time and are very comfortable with each other, but something about the way she said it... it didn't sound like a joke. I still treated it as one, which might not have been the best way of handling it, but I said, "Anytime baby, anytime!". I'm really hoping she's joking, and I think she was... we have odd senses of humor. But she's made many comments before about my body and the like. I thought nothing of it at the time as she's my close girlfriend, ya know? I'm not going to worry about it yet though. I just don't want anyone's feelings hurt, least of all hers.

Then she called me all upset one night as her boyfriend has been dishonest with her about some pretty important things. Honesty is VERY important to both of us, so I consoled her as best I could. Out of the blue she starts talking about how she has to find her lesbian friend. Has to! She misses her and thinks that being a lesbian is the "way to go". Now I don't know if she was saying that out of hurt or frustration, but as I've said, my "gaydar" has always went off about her. She talked about how gorgeous this girl was and how she "could have had that" and instead has a lying arsehole. Hmmm. I told her that we can find her, that I'll do my best to find her and that if she really wants to be with her that she needs to be. She was quiet for a moment and just said, "thank you". I think, sadly, somehow she was afraid I, of all people, would judge her. But as you so wisely said... it's a scary and confusing time and I know she wouldn't want to lose my friendship as we are very, very close. So close that we've talked about being attracted to women, it's just the "sex thing" that scares us. Not turns us off, it's just scary because it's like being a virgin all over again! Heck, if I wasn't in a relationship hell yeah I'd think about being in one with her! But I am and I am happy, so.... I just really hope I can find that girl! I can see her, unhappily, settling for the man she is with because her self-esteem is crap. I don't want that to happen to her!!

Thank you so much for your sweet compliments (blush). They mean a lot to me coming from someone as well adjusted and wonderful as yourself! I do at least have a very, very strong sense of empathy (if you believe in any metaphysical stuff at all, I'm what they call an "empath" actually, due to the conditions I grew up in) and that really helps to guide me. I can often "read" how people are feeling, even strangers, from clear accross the room and can often say "just the right thing" at those times. I guess I just need more self-confidence. I care about these people and would never want to inadvertantly hurt them!! I'll listen "till the cows come home" as they say on this side of the pond!

I cannot thank you enough Squidge! (((((hugs)))))! Really, you've helped TONS and this is something that has been weighing heavily on me. You really have a gift for helping people, and I can tell that you are so far on your journey of self-acceptance... perhaps further than you know. You're just the coolest!!! Really, I mean that!

Thanks again!! You've helped me perhaps sleep easier, and you've helped those other folks too... see what a difference you've made? You rock!

Dana
**A toast to open communication!! Huzzah!**

__________________
Me (33)/Michael (3o)
Together for almost nine long, happy years!

First PCOS dx: 1989
Supplements: One A Day Weight Smart, B Complex, Biotin, Pantothenic Acid (B5), B12, Saw Palmetto, Vit C, Vit D3, NAC, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Chromium Piconolate, Cinnamon, Magnesium, EPO, Zinc Gluconate, Green Tea
Diet: "Modified" Zone plan

"You don't love a woman because she is beautiful, but she is beautiful because you love her" -Anon.


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ABumpyGal

Heya Squidge!
I plucked when they first started appearing in my teens, as I feared that old wive's tale of "it will grow in thicker and darker if you shave!!". It wasn't a big deal a first, just a few hairs on my chin and of course the ever present peachfuzz that I just left alone as it was blonde.

Then as I came well into my twenties it became a chore. I had a full on goatee and plucking that sucker took a half an hour or more! So I expirimented with waxing, both at home and having it done. YOW! The pain wasn't bad, it was the fact that my fair Irish skin was ripped off along with the hair and I'd have what looked like bad burns for days. Nuh-uh!!

Finally one morning my partner was shaving to go to work. Something just snapped in my brain. I was deeply depressed at the time and plucking was the last thing I had had the energy for! I asked him to pass the shaver and that was it! He was shocked at first, but then said, "I'm glad really. It will be so much easier for you!". Bless his heart!

It's funny you mention wanting to shave as a child. I've always been fascinated with shaving impliments, such as razors, shavers, after shave, the whole bit. My Play Doh Beauty salon/Barber shop set had this fake plastic razor to "shave" the play doh hair off if you chose. I'd play with that toy razor in the tub, acting out the shaving process and not on my legs! I had never put that together until you mentioned it Squidge! Perhaps I knew my destiny?

Happy early birthday!! You sure don't look 42! More like my age, 32... I've noticed we PCOSers age well. Hormones perhaps?

I finally got to see the wonderous Squidge!! Thank you for sharing your pictures with us. You are very handsome! In fact, you look just like this gay guy I "play flirt" with at the club all the time. Heck, maybe he isn't a guy after all! That would be so cool if he wasn't... finally a non-MTF to discuss these things with! Not that I don't love my MTF sisters, but I'd love to meet some butch/femmes.

I don't blame you for shaving when you have to go to the hospital (although I'm sorry you have to go often ). Sometimes it just isn't worth fighting the system, ya know? Especially when going through something that's stressful enough anyway. I'm sooo impressed with your 'stache. That's one thing I don't have (beyond fuzz); yet anyway. And your's is impressive! Not that other people's opinions should matter, but I like the blonde look. It's unique as you don't often see anyone with a pure blonde 'stache or beard, plus it matches your hair nicely! You and I share about the same goatee though! Mine has gotten sparser, especially in the center, as I've been taking supplements. I only have to shave every three days now too, and that's with an electric! I will have stubble, but just a teeny bit that you can only feel and not see. I'm all about one less maintanence thang to do each day! Frees time for other things! As more of a Femme, especially on the outside, having a goatee isn't a look I'm into for me at the mo.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that! ((((hugs))))! You're explaining how I'm feeling almost to a T. I do still feel what I consider "powerful" (as I've always considered my more 'boyish' side), but I just feel... out of sorts. I feel more vulnerable in an odd way. This probably has to do with my past, and would make perfect sense. And I mean no offense to anyone, really, but I feel more "female" in those ways that I always considered annoying. Think of PMS type stuff... weepy, over-reactive emotionally, super sensitive and needy, the works. Now I do have a high estrogen level, so I do have PMS and I'm familiar with those feelings, but it's totally not the time in my cycle for that (I'm in week 2 actually). There's many things I like about being a woman, but that stuff isn't anywhere NEAR making the list! I like being logical and even headed... even for a bipolar! And right now I just feel... illogical and silly. I really mean no offense by that to all the great ladies out there! This is only my own personal issues!! I don't judge others.

Sadly, like you, the best treatments for my HS are very, very strong antiandrogens. I hadn't honestly thought of the emotional ramifications of taking such medications... I was just so excited that there was finally a treatment!! Even my BCP is highly PCOS/HS inappropriate as it has the highest androgen producing progesterone available in it. I remember being on more estrogenic BCP as a younger woman/teen and while my physical health improved my head and identity definitely changed. I became obscenely girly and promiscuous (with men). My breasts grew a cup size and I never lost it. I became even curvier and I never lost that, either. Even my style of dress changed! So now I'm confused about what direction to take with therapy. I figure I'll give things a go and see how they work out, but if I start to feel mentally uncomfortable I'll have to revisit my options I suppose.

Thank you so much for taking your time to discuss these things with me! I just want you to know I appreciate this more than you could ever know. I do have my PCOS best friend, but she can only understand so much. You, on the other hand, understand so much! It makes me feel so much better! Just to know that someone out there understands all these feelings I've been having for so long is very, very cathartic! ((((hugs))))

Have fun when your SO comes to visit!! I know you will! I can't wait until you two can be together... true love is a special thing!

Thanks so much!
Dana

__________________
Me (33)/Michael (3o)
Together for almost nine long, happy years!

First PCOS dx: 1989
Supplements: One A Day Weight Smart, B Complex, Biotin, Pantothenic Acid (B5), B12, Saw Palmetto, Vit C, Vit D3, NAC, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Chromium Piconolate, Cinnamon, Magnesium, EPO, Zinc Gluconate, Green Tea
Diet: "Modified" Zone plan

"You don't love a woman because she is beautiful, but she is beautiful because you love her" -Anon.


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squidge63

Well there you go, maybe he isn't a guy... Thank you for the compliment. There are other pictures in the post a pic of yourself, where I dyed my facial hair black as my partner has been "dying" (pun intented lol) to see my gray/white/some black hair darker... also if you join butch femme there is a whole gallery lol You also will probably find plenty of butch/femmes in your part of the States, and may meet up with some as different areas have get togethers etc... it is a good site, and it is where I met my partner.

It's only in the past year that the "missing" center bit of my goatee has gone awol, I think the goatee faerie came and stole it one night...lol but often I look at guys with beards/goatees and not all of them have a center bit.. I like the blonde matching look as well but with the hairs that are white they don't take any color.. my 'stache needs a trim at the moment as some of the hairs are starting to curl over my top lip and that is annoying...lol. Thank you for saying I don't look 42, when my hair is it's natural gray color then I look about 50.. I am looking forward to being 42 I have a thing about even numbers, and I also see words in color which i thought everyone did until my friend said... ummmmmmmmmmmmm nope every word she sees in her mind is in black and white....

That was good of your partner regarding you shaving, I had been shaving for 4 years before my parents knew and they bought me my first electric razor, as I was using the disposable razors pre aloe vera/lube strips... my dad even told me how to shave, he even shaved me one day as i had missed quite a few hairs on my neck... to me it felt good (knowing i should have been male), and it is what a dad would do with his son. It's funny when I was up at my parents in Nov my dad made a comment (can't remember what though), but whatever it was he started to say son instead of daughter... and I am an only child so it's not as if he was referring to a brother.

As I said before, feel free anytime to ask any questions about anything, and that goes for the rest of the cysters.. If I can be of help even if it's just to listen (for want of a better word) to a rant or whatever then go ahead. If I can't help I will look to other sources and see if I can come up with anything helpful.

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45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

joyblack

So what type of electric razor did they buy you?

am419747

I hadn't planned on posting on this thread, as I didn't think any of it applied to me. But, now that I think about it, I've always been somewhat 'boyish' to a certain extent.

I was very girly girl as a child. Tea parties, playing dress up, the whole nine yards. But, as I got older, I began to be heavily into sports, hanging out with the boys. Things like that. I was, in a way, a girly tomboy, if that makes sense? I didn't dress like a boy, but was still "rough" like a guy. I don't even know if the guys I was friends with separated me from them. The girls always had a problem with me, because I was able to befriend guys without an ounce of problem; something of which they didn't(and couldn't) understand. My best friend still finds the way that I'm "at ease" with guys to be mysterious, despite having known me for ten years.

I'm not very hairy, or built like a guy, but I am rather... tough, for lack of a better word. I don't back down, despite not being able to defend myself like a guy could. Just very recently I've become quite a bit worse with this, as, for a while, I was in that "house wife" role. I forced myself into a position where I was not being what I normally was, which had really made me felt like I had lost some of myself. I guess a part of me is very outlandish, in that aspect. I sometimes find that this bothers people, moreso than it does me, particulary guys. They expect meek and timid, instead they get me - very abrasive, to the point, almost to a fault. I actually had a guy friend comment recently that, whenever I do act 'girlish', he appreciates me a bit more. In a way, that comment was a bit disturbing, as it makes me feel like I need to take on a dependent role. And, also, that I'm not "likeable" in that sense, just because I don't act like a normal girl.

Sorry for rambling on, but it was very nice to just read these posts and be able to relate, somewhat.

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squidge63

I can't remember now it was about 28 years ago, I think it was made by one of the usual electric razor companies, a lady shave (Phillips I think),seems to spring to mind. Over the years though I have found that wet shaving is the best option for me. The best electric I had was the Remington one for sensitive skin, recommended by a male friend of mine, it was very good until it died on me after a couple of years... I also like Braun electric ones as well. I go for the mens razors, as the ladies ones don't give me a good shave..

am419747 glad to see some more posts in this thread. I too have always found it easier to get on with guys, and when I was a kid it was always the boys who I had as buddies, any girls (very few of them) that were with us were also tomboys, although generally it was just me and the boys. This carried on into adulthood, I much preferred working with all men. When I was in nursing I much preferred nursing men than women, they were so much easier than the women. As we only had 1 male nurse on the ward, often the shaves (for the men who couldnt shave or had difficulty), were left for me to do .. maybe I should have been a barber...lol and one elderly gentleman who was blind, always waited for me to come shave him. Unless the patient had expressed a wish to not be shaved as he was growing a beard or just didnt fancy it, I used to get really annoyed when other nurses would leave some of the guys looking unkempt because they didnt want to shave them, anyway I am digressing here..lol

When I was following the straight path in life, I didn't have too much difficulty in attracting guys, and I am sure that because i get on with them better they found it fairly easy to talk to me... I remember one guy he was astounded because we were sitting watching a soccer match on the tv and talking about it, and afterwards he said, that was really refreshing i have never had a conversation like that with a woman before...lol

__________________
-------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

joyblack

The electric razors designed for women are pretty useless on the face -- they're not really designed for that. I've found the electric razors at the top of the Norelco (Philips) men's range ideal for sensitive skin.

If your parents came round sufficiently to buy you an electric razor -- albeit a woman's one -- have they ever come round enough to discuss the other physical aspects of the situation? They must clearly have wondered about these things when you were younger -- have they ever, for example, discussed with you the enlarged clitoris?

It seems from what you say that your father is in the process of beginning to warm to the fact that you have some male characteristics he can relate to. Have you been able to build on this relationship in any way?

joyblack

I think the situation is perfectly understandable -- you've had testosterone acting on your brain to a far greater extent than it's acted on your body, so that you have a male-type brain in a body that's much more female than your brain is. Your body presumably looks normal-female, but your brain makes you think in a way that obviously won't pass for normal-female but is recognised as male, by females and males alike.

It probably creates more difficulties with female acquaintances than with male acquaintances, I should think.

squidge63

They never really noticed when I was a kid that I was hairy or growing up, I had been shaving for 4 yrs before they even knew about it. They know that my hormones are mucked up but that's as far as it goes. They don't understand and I have never come out to them either, although I know deep down they know, you just have to take one look at me. My parents don't cope with my health problems at all and because I am young I should be healthy and there is nothing wrong with me... my dad said the last time I was home... "Oh well you won't have diabetes forever"!!!!! anytime I get a new problem I dred telling them. My mother didnt inform me about periods or anything, so when I did start having them I didnt have a clue what was happening. Thankfully they stopped after about 3 or 4 of them and I presumed that was it for life, well it was more or less.. but mum never noticed that i had stopped or not asked for pads.

When I was a kid sometimes dad would say i should have been a boy as i liked helping with the car etc... but it was a funny slip up when he said that when i was home last.

Ladies razors are no good, i have always had mens razors after the first one. I dont like the rotating head ones though, they leave a nasty rash and red area with me, i prefer the foil ones.

__________________
-------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

joyblack

Hard to imagine them not noticing your moustache before you started shaving it. Even harder to imagine them not noticing the enlarged clitoris when you were small. I reckon that deep down they probably know that you're somewhere in the "middle ground."

I reckon that he probably realizes at least sub-consciously. I'd be tempted to broach things with him a bit -- like asking him how old he was when he started to shave... how often he has to shave and so on. And I'd be telling him how often I do myself. I'd also be tempted to ask whether the doctors had ever raised the question of the very large clitoris.

I agree that the ladies' ones are no use. Strangely enough, I've found the Norelco/Philips ones very good for sensitive skin, but I believe the Remingtons aren't so good. I've always bought at the top end of the range, though.

squidge63

My 'stache was always very light even after shaving it, then i stopped shaving it for a few years untit it got darker in color in my 20's... Also I am not blood related to my parents as I was adopted when I was a baby. I only knew i had a large clit when in my 20's the endo dr wanted some med students to come in and view it....lol. I do remember about the age of 9 something happening down below but thought that was normal so didnt say anything.... Trust me where health or any abnormal bits of me are concerned my parents dont want to know, everytime i tel them that something else has gone wrong with me they ignore it.. my dad seems to think that it is all imaginary, because they cant grasp the fact that I am not a healthy human being, and as i am young i cant possibly have anything wrong with me..

__________________
-------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day

Loads of other medications.
-------------------------------
What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...

belle81

I am so glad that so many Pcos'ers think like me. I am in a relationship with a man but I too fantasize about women, and even put myself in the mans role sometimes. I think the transgendered are hot! Sometime ago I thought that maybe my thoughts were due to my "mystery diagnosis", along with my faicial hair. Sometimes I too feel like I am in a mans body but if u see me on the street u would think that I am the girliest girl. Sometimes I have thoughts of wanting to have a male's genital. It's wierd I know, anyone else like me.

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