I am so glad that so many Pcos'ers think like me. I am in a relationship with a man but I too fantasize about women, and even put myself in the mans role sometimes. I think the transgendered are hot! Sometime ago I thought that maybe my thoughts were due to my "mystery diagnosis", along with my faicial hair. Sometimes I too feel like I am in a mans body but if u see me on the street u would think that I am the girliest girl. Sometimes I have thoughts of wanting to have a male's genital. It's wierd I know, anyone else like me.
Well, there clearly are some features of your body that are masculine, like the facial hair. Check whether your ring fingers are longer than your index fingers -- if so, the chances are your brain has been largely masculinized.
Not quite sure what your fantasy is about a male's genital in that I think that guys would probably point out that the most sensitive part of the male genitals are actually the testicles. I presume, however, that your fantasy is about having a penis. The typical US guy has had the foreskin removed from his penis -- that's a very large proportion of the total skin on the penis, becuase it's actually doubled over. That effectively turns his penis into something of a blunt instrument to thrust with.
Most other western males, inlcuding most Canadians under 30, retain their foreskins and the glans is much more sensitive so they tend to use their penis as a sensitive exploring tool. So I've no idea how your fantasy goes.
You do, of course, have the female equivalent and as Squidge has pointed out in relation to her own clitoris, that can be quite large in some females with high testosterone levels.
But I assume you have the capability to have sexual relations as a woman and certainly for myself, though I'm obviously markedly masculinized in terms of moustache and beard growth and restricted breast development, I find my physical relationship with my husband totally and absolutely fulfilling and have no desire for any other sort of physical relationship.
Well, there clearly are some features of your body that are masculine, like the facial hair. Check whether your ring fingers are longer than your index fingers -- if so, the chances are your brain has been largely masculinized.
This is a theory mainly pushed by one man, John T. Manning, whose only qualifications I can find thus far are "author", as he has written a book on his "digit ratio" theory. While there is some work done on females, most studies that I could find seem to be done on males. You can read his published studies on Pubmed here: http://tinyurl.com/ba8es
There is some interest in digit ratio, amonst many other "markers", of fetal hormonal exposure by a handful of other researchers. Mostly antropolgical researchers, it seems. A very recent (Jan. 2006) study out of Harvard by a research team not affiliated with Manning disagrees with his findings: http://tinyurl.com/7vxfz
Note the end, where they claim that 2D:4D ratio tends to decline between ages 6-8. In other words, it isn't very useful past that age in their findings. They also found that the 2D:4D ratio wasn't a stable indicator accross all ethinic groups. They suggest that these findings may be why there have been "prior conflicting findings about 2D:4D", which sounds as if the prior research on this is not exactly rock-solid. They suggest a better, age-stable, and ethnicity-stable indicator may be 3D:4D.
The studies on Pubmed do make for some interesting, thought inspiring reading, but this research appears to be in its infancy. I would advise taking anything found by a random google search on Manning or his theory with a hunk of salt, being as he's selling a book and it's hard to know the veracity of what one finds on the internet. Pubmed is at least reliable in that sense, but even studies, and thus their abstracts, can be fudged a bit to get the results you want if a reward is at stake.
In other words, I think I'll wait a few years to see how the research shakes out before I make any pronouncements. It may be an indicator, but at least one very recent study says that it isn't. It's too early to tell, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyblack
Not quite sure what your fantasy is about a male's genital in that I think that guys would probably point out that the most sensitive part of the male genitals are actually the testicles. I presume, however, that your fantasy is about having a penis. The typical US guy has had the foreskin removed from his penis -- that's a very large proportion of the total skin on the penis, becuase it's actually doubled over. That effectively turns his penis into something of a blunt instrument to thrust with.
Well, IMHO fantasies are just that. Fantasies. They don't necessarily have to make sense.
And I was quite shocked to learn that men's scrotums are not really all that sensitive. The actual testicle is sensitive to crushing or blows, but you don't normally touch a testicle. My partner can pinch, squeeze, and manipulate his scrotum in ways that make me squirm, as it looks very painful! I have known a few men with scrotal piercings and they have said the same; that scrotums aren't as sensitive as you think. Crushing or sharp blows to the testicles are when they suddenly become quite sensitive! Some men I've been with enjoy having their scrotum played with or touched, some men won't even let you near it out of fear of an unintentional jostle. In terms of erogeneously sensitive I'm not quite sure the scrotum is where it's at.
From what I've learned about male anatomy, a man's glans is generally the area of their genitalia with the most nerve endings, and thus the most sensitive. It corresponds directly with our clitoris, as that's what our clitoris would have "developed into" as a fetus if we had been boys instead of girls. The scrotum corresponds with our labia majora, or outer lips. This makes sense to me, as the sensitivity of the men I have known sexually has corresponded this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyblack
Most other western males, inlcuding most Canadians under 30, retain their foreskins and the glans is much more sensitive so they tend to use their penis as a sensitive exploring tool. So I've no idea how your fantasy goes.
There's even some controversy over this, believe it or not! I would tend to think the same as you, as it only makes sense that a constantly exposed glans would be a bit more "numb". I'm too tired to check if there's actually any studies on this now, but I'd like to later. But I've been privy to a few internet conversations where men who were circumsized as adults, post virginity, for medical reasons have claimed to have felt no difference in sensation.
I've only been with circumsized men, so my experience is limited to them. However they sure used their penis' in quite a sensitive way during foreplay. I suppose you could call that "exploration". They seem to really enjoy feeling different textures with it, rubbing it on various body parts, and feeling the difference in these activities while using lube and not. I therefore do not agree at all with you assertion that a circumsized penis has then become nothing but a built in strap on. My experience has been anything BUT! In fact, partner's is so sensitive it can only be touched certain ways or he'll hit the ceiling! I don't necessarily agree with the practice, but I don't let my beliefs on that issue cloud the reality I've experienced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyblack
You do, of course, have the female equivalent and as Squidge has pointed out in relation to her own clitoris, that can be quite large in some females with high testosterone levels.
I never knew I had a large clitoris until I read the thread about that here, but I do. And I'm thankful! No wonder there's all of those jokes about men never being able to find a clitoris if most of them are that small! Mine isn't overly large, just about almond size, not including the hood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyblack
But I assume you have the capability to have sexual relations as a woman and certainly for myself, though I'm obviously markedly masculinized in terms of moustache and beard growth and restricted breast development, I find my physical relationship with my husband totally and absolutely fulfilling and have no desire for any other sort of physical relationship.
I'm certainly genuinely happy that you have a fulfilling relationship with your husband. That is a very good thing!
But just because Belle is capable of sexual relations as a women doesn't mean that fact might solve all of her issues with gender and sexuality, if I'm reading her posts correctly. I relate very much to what Belle has said, especially in her last post. Although I've never felt the urge to pack, or wear a prosthetic male genitalia, I personally believe that if one has the urge or curiousity, why not? It isn't hurting anyone! Especially if she has deeply talked this over with her mate, which I highly suggest!
Open communication is a must when one is dealing with issues like these, IMHO. I was scared to death to admit my feelings to my partner, even though he's a very accepting guy. I'm ever so glad I did share this with him though, as he has become my ally in my quest for figuring things out once and for all.
If you're still out there reading Belle, don't despair as you're not "the only one"! There's at least me and I suspect there are probably more of us as well who just might not be feel comfortable or ready to talk about it freely. I can understand that, sadly.
Dana
__________________ Me (33)/Michael (3o) Together for almost nine long, happy years!
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This is a theory mainly pushed by one man, John T. Manning, whose only qualifications I can find thus far are "author", as he has written a book on his "digit ratio" theory. While there is some work done on females, most studies that I could find seem to be done on males. You can read his published studies on Pubmed here: http://tinyurl.com/ba8e
Why not read the book? -- his status at the University of Liverpool is that of a Reader -- a post that in the US would probably be classed as a professor.
Quote:
In other words, I think I'll wait a few years to see how the research shakes out before I make any pronouncements. It may be an indicator, but at least one very recent study says that it isn't. It's too early to tell, really.
Fair enough. Though I think the fact that the ring finger is just that points to a long association with its indicating certain matters.
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Well, IMHO fantasies are just that. Fantasies. They don't necessarily have to make sense.
No, but they may well arise because of unusual desires which may have a biological basis.
Quote:
And I was quite shocked to learn that men's scrotums are not really all that sensitive. The actual testicle is sensitive to crushing or blows, but you don't normally touch a testicle. My partner can pinch, squeeze, and manipulate his scrotum in ways that make me squirm, as it looks very painful! I have known a few men with scrotal piercings and they have said the same; that scrotums aren't as sensitive as you think. Crushing or sharp blows to the testicles are when they suddenly become quite sensitive! Some men I've been with enjoy having their scrotum played with or touched, some men won't even let you near it out of fear of an unintentional jostle. In terms of erogeneously sensitive I'm not quite sure the scrotum is where it's at.
Of course it's the contents of the scrotum that are sensitive. And most guys would say exceedingly sensitive.
Quote:
From what I've learned about male anatomy, a man's glans is generally the area of their genitalia with the most nerve endings, and thus the most sensitive. It corresponds directly with our clitoris, as that's what our clitoris would have "developed into" as a fetus if we had been boys instead of girls. The scrotum corresponds with our labia majora, or outer lips. This makes sense to me, as the sensitivity of the men I have known sexually has corresponded this way.
Press your finger in directly above a guy's penis and pull gently upwards and you'll see how it compares to a girl's genitals.
Quote:
There's even some controversy over this, believe it or not! I would tend to think the same as you, as it only makes sense that a constantly exposed glans would be a bit more "numb". I'm too tired to check if there's actually any studies on this now, but I'd like to later. But I've been privy to a few internet conversations where men who were circumsized as adults, post virginity, for medical reasons have claimed to have felt no difference in sensation.
Perhaps guys whose penises needed operations are not the best guys to base findings on.
Quote:
I've only been with circumsized men, so my experience is limited to them. However they sure used their penis' in quite a sensitive way during foreplay. I suppose you could call that "exploration". They seem to really enjoy feeling different textures with it, rubbing it on various body parts, and feeling the difference in these activities while using lube and not. I therefore do not agree at all with you assertion that a circumsized penis has then become nothing but a built in strap on. My experience has been anything BUT! In fact, partner's is so sensitive it can only be touched certain ways or he'll hit the ceiling! I don't necessarily agree with the practice, but I don't let my beliefs on that issue cloud the reality I've experienced.
No doubt there are circumcised guys with relatively sensitive penises, but uncircumcised guys are considerably more sensitive on average. And more to the point, when you work out the area of skin that is lost in a full circumcision, it's almost half the skin of the penis. Incidently, the most sensitive area of the penis is the corona -- the rear end of the glans-- the end of the wide bit. The place where the foreskin bunches up behind in a complete male.
Quote:
I never knew I had a large clitoris until I read the thread about that here, but I do. And I'm thankful! No wonder there's all of those jokes about men never being able to find a clitoris if most of them are that small! Mine isn't overly large, just about almond size, not including the hood.
That's magnificent -- congrats!
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I'm certainly genuinely happy that you have a fulfilling relationship with your husband. That is a very good thing!
Thanks. Considering that in many ways I'd be considered physically very masculine, it's all the more tremendous.
Quote:
But just because Belle is capable of sexual relations as a women doesn't mean that fact might solve all of her issues with gender and sexuality, if I'm reading her posts correctly. I relate very much to what Belle has said, especially in her last post.
I'm not quite sure just what she was meaning in relation to her fantasizing about having a male genital. I'm not clear about the aspect of the male genitals she found attractive enough to want to possess herself. I wondered if it was more what she could do with it in a proactive way.
Originally Posted by belle81
I am so glad that so many Pcos'ers think like me. I am in a relationship with a man but I too fantasize about women, and even put myself in the mans role sometimes. I think the transgendered are hot! Sometime ago I thought that maybe my thoughts were due to my "mystery diagnosis", along with my faicial hair. Sometimes I too feel like I am in a mans body but if u see me on the street u would think that I am the girliest girl. Sometimes I have thoughts of wanting to have a male's genital. It's wierd I know, anyone else like me.
Belle, there are many straight women who have fantasies and thoughts about other women, although not many of them will admit to it. It doesn't mean that you are gay or that you only feel like that because you have pcos and have elevated male hormones. Quite a few straightwomen who haven't got pcos have mentioned this before in conversation. If thruth be known there are probably many more out there who do. Also you are not the only woman in the world to wonder what it would be like to have male genitalia, especially on a cold night when you have drunk way too much and you need to answer natures call... lol
This thread has been derailed somewhat from being transgendered, which is totally different to feeling masculinised/male due to our elevated male hormones. I knew at an early age I should have been a boy and wondered why I grew up into a girl.. it was something I didn't understand so I locked away that part of my life and grew up female. I have never felt female or that feminine (even when I tried..lol), but did my best to fit in. I started getting hairy about the age of 9 and never had a problem with it, it felt natural for me to have hair, until of course I got teased etc.. at school. It was when I started shaving at 14 that my locked up male came out and although I was pleased that I was doing something male, I also still didn't understand and was getting teased so locked it back up again. Quite successfully for a good number of years. I came out in 1997 and since then I have evolved and grown into the person I am today. I realised that I wasn't the only person on the planet who knew they were born in the wrong body, and I let the man out in me. My endo dr's even said many years ago that even without elevated T levels I would have been hairy regardless. On one of the sites I am a member there is a large FTM community and like me they all knew they were men in a womans body. I look in the mirror now and see the man I would be, I am not going to transition, I am happy and my girlfriend loves me for just being me, my friends like me for being me and that is what makes me happy, and at the end of the day that is what counts. There are many women on this site that probably thought they wouldn't find anyone because of the pcos, and there are many happily married, engaged and with their boyfriends...
There are a lot of women around who take on a more manly role around the house or in a relationship, I think it is probably because they are strong women.. When I wonder around town I am amazed at how many guys are actually married to women who do have a manish/boyish look about them, I think it is quite common. I know a few guys have hit on me (god knows why esp as I say in my profile that a)i am engaged to my g'fd b)I am bi-gendered, masculine and butch...lol), there are guys out there that do like masculine looking females, and I remember watching a program one time about guys who are looking for women who are hairy.
Regarding the male genitalia, I have heard men saying they have thought about having boobs, they could fondle them all day long...rofl..!!! as I said earlier you are not odd for having those thoughts. I don't know where the conversation on dicks being blunt ramming tools and and the circumcision, but hey as I said this thread has been derailed. From a personal point of view when I did have boyfriends, I have been with both circumcised and not, and to be honest to me it wasn't much different and they certainly both enjoyed themselves, and the guys certainly didn't use it as a blunt ramming tool as it was put.... maybe that is that persons experience, who knows eh....
Come back and explore this thread Belle, Abumpygal is also femme/feminine and has the same feelings, and not just the oh I look masculine due to pcos so I must be transgendered.... and I am sick to death of reading about digit ratio on more than one thread....lol Anyway I am going to finish here as it's late and I am going to go off to bed...
__________________ -------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day
Loads of other medications.
------------------------------- What is a friend?A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...
I am amazed at how many guys are actually married to women who do have a manish/boyish look about them, I think it is quite common.
It is indeed. I think it's at least partly because of the guys' appreciation of the high sex drive of mannish women and partly because of the guys' appreciation of women who have male features while still remaining technically women. Interestingly, I think nearly all guys appreciate a large clitoris.
It is indeed. I think it's at least partly because of the guys' appreciation of the high sex drive of mannish women and partly because of the guys' appreciation of women who have male features while still remaining technically women. Interestingly, I think nearly all guys appreciate a large clitoris.
Maybe their appreciation of a large clitoris is due to the fact they can find it for a change.... lol (joke).. I do think that there are people out there for all of us, and yes it can take time to meet the right person, and we are all attracted to different things, hell I think it would be boring if everyone was the same.. we all have our crosses to bear in whatever form they may be, we have pcos which brings with it its problems, but whether we like to think it or not, we do deal with it, we get on with our lives, we do find love (whether with a man or a woman)... from what I have seen on the post your picture thread, everyone I have seen is pretty and feminine.. yes we have facial hair(so do quite a few non pcos ladies I have found out), obesity(not a new problem in the world and getting worse), diabetes(a disease where for every 1 diabetic there are at least 10 out there who have it but don't know) etc.... but from what I have seen since being a member, we are ALL exceptional people, even though we might not feel like it. Whether we are more on the masculine looking side, whether we are on the feminine looking side, there are many of us with partners who love us for being us...
When I came out I didn't think I would find anyone as I am masculine and didn't think that lesbians would find that appealing, and many don't which is fair enough. In the 9 years I have been out I have become more masculine as I grow happier in my body. I could walk into a whole room of single lesbians and come out on my own at the end... I have had lesbians tell me that "I am not dancing with you, we don't dance with men"... this coming from a woman who had a light moustache and hairy legs....!!!!! I was helping to teach a dance, so I just walked away and thought fair enough your choice. It was 4 years before I got my 1st girlfriend, only lasted 3 months as we were both masculine, and she was younger and we looked like father and son lol. I think it only happened because she showed an interest in me, and after about 7 knockbacks it was a change for someone to take an interest. When my 2nd relationship ended (she cheated on me), I was scared to death of going back on the dating scene again, esp as I was finding out about myself and who I truly was, I really didn't think that I would find anyone (well had a few gay men after me lol), as I let my bi-gendered self out. thnkfully my girlfriend was very patient and waited for me to get to a state of mind where I wasn't petrified of going into a relationship and being hurt again. She loves my bi-genderism, she loves my masculinity, my maleness, with my little twist of female in there somewhere... and I wouldn't be without her, she is most definitely my soulmate, my lover and my friend.
__________________ -------------------------------------------
45(feels like 99 some days)
Dx - pcos 1982
Dx - diabetes 2 1999,
Tx - metformin slow release 2000mg. Insulin 5 times a day
Loads of other medications.
------------------------------- What is a friend?A single soul dwelling in two bodies.
Aristotle...
I accept with informationr. Walter Futterweit: “A number of them have significant facial hair, they have the enhanced sensitivity of the hair follicle to a normal or slight increased levels of male hormone, and in some there were irregular periods. So as mentioned, a fair number of them already had polycystic ovary syndrome, that doesn’t mean to say that women with PCOS have a higher tendency to have gender disorders. It just means that in the series of patients that were selected that I have seen, a certain number of them did have PCOS."
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well, i am a crazy 25 year old woman. i have not figured out who or what i am because i seem to be much like 2 people in one body. i am married to a man. prior to marrying him, i had dated 3 other males and 5 women. i much prefer women over men, they are much nicer to look at. i see boos or a partially naked woman on tv and get horny instantly lol and i am very manly and girly too lol. on the man side i love sex alot, i grab and smack my husbands butt alot. i hate dresses and skirts. i prefer action packed movies over sappy ones. i never wear heels. hate shaving, only do it like once a week. but i wear makeup. like to cookn and do crafts. i dont feel girly. i dont fix up my hair i just throw it in a ponytail and go with my bad self lol. and get this I LOVE gay men. lol and gay women. infact. of the 3 guys i dated, one turned out to be gay. one is bi??? (my husband) and the other never said anything about liking men but was very femme. he even wore girls body spray. it was vanilla lol and it smelled awesome! for my husband, i am the first and only girl he has slept with, but he has slept with lots of guys. sometimes i question why he never accepted his sexuality and lived a gay life instead of marrying me. he says he enjoys sex with men but they do not do for him what i do emotionally. he said he could never see himself falling in love with a man the way he has fallen for me. all his relationships with guys were one night stands. my husband is very femme. he oves chick flicks, and celine dion, cher, gloria estefan, lol and i like punk rock. we are totally the weirdest couple ever, arent we? and im facinated by butch chicks. i ike in san antonio. theres alot and i stare when i see them. they must think im weird. i find it attractive, but have only ever dated femmes. i am strange, i know. i love my husband and i'm glad he's not your typical guy, but i am not straight. i still love women. however i do not cheat. i dont know where i belong. i,m very much 2 people in one body and its so confusing.
__________________ Pellie (25) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Nate (26) 8 years
r. Walter Futterweit: “A number of them have significant facial hair, they have the enhanced sensitivity of the hair follicle to a normal or slight increased levels of male hormone, and in some there were irregular periods. So as mentioned, a fair number of them already had polycystic ovary syndrome, that doesn’t mean to say that women with PCOS have a higher tendency to have gender disorders. It just means that in the series of patients that were selected that I have seen, a certain number of them did have PCOS."
