I haven't been around for a while, I took a break from ttc to try to get my hair loss and skin under control. I was so depressed, even though I was able to lose a significant amount of weight (within 5lbs of goal weight!!) these "cosmetic" issues just didn't improve.
I tried Aldactone and just couldn't take it. I had the worst headaches of my life.
Then I tried Saw Palmetto and I'm in LOVE! No side effects and my skin is totally completely clear. This is the first time that I can remember since age 11. Most of all it's not oily anymore, even my scalp, my back and the (gross) inside of my ears are not oily. I battled cystic acne around my period and just general oiliness, whiteheads and small pimples throughout the month.
I've read that saw palmetto also blocks estrogen have you heard this?How long did it take for you to get results?What brand and dosage did you take?I'm very interested because im allergic to spiro and im currently taking flutamide and the side effects have been real bad for me so i want to try something else but im running out of options here! I'm taking yasmin bcp but it's not stoping the oily skin and im still breaking out more than i would like to.Im now looking into trying tagamet because it is a mild anti androgen but i've read that it does not work that great.So please any info would be greatly appreciated.I will go to your other post to check that one out.
__________________ 5'5 weight 155-goal 135.Meds-Aldactone 150mgs.Yasmin,xanax,claritin-d.Currently getting back into weight lifting and attempting to low carb!
Do you have a link re: estrogen info. that you refer to? I believe it inhibits estrogen receptor activity, which is a different thing. It is a precursor to progesterone, and balances estrogen in a similar way.
About a month for me to notice changes in my skin/oiliness. Probably about 2 months til I stopped breaking out. I'm not sure re: hair growth, but I pluck/wax from chin and upper lip much less frequently. Hair shedding is practically non-existant now.
my husband reads muscle media 2000 magazine and the author Bill Philips said in an article that it inhibits estrogen and androgens.Im on ths birth control pill so i dont know if it would inhibit the estrogen because it comes from the pill and not my own body.
__________________ 5'5 weight 155-goal 135.Meds-Aldactone 150mgs.Yasmin,xanax,claritin-d.Currently getting back into weight lifting and attempting to low carb!
Hi gals. Just wanted to let you know of my experience with saw palmetto. I took it for a few months and had adverse effects. My AF stopped when I went off spiro and I was quite ill the whole time I was on it. So I think it just depends on the person. Saw palmetto would definately be an alternative if you were allergic to spiro. I am sure it works for some. I investigated it quite a bit before I went on it and it has quite the reputation for helping. Best of luck!!! Take care. So glad to hear it has worked for you!!!!!
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Originally posted by frenchiebull my husband reads muscle media 2000 magazine and the author Bill Philips said in an article that it inhibits estrogen and androgens.Im on ths birth control pill so i dont know if it would inhibit the estrogen because it comes from the pill and not my own body.
Did Bill Philips (what is his background exactly?) explain why this was? Was he talking about men or women? Blocking estrogen receptors? Which is a good thing, because I think progesterone does that as well, and PCOS women are deficient in progesterone.
For men, this is important, as estrogen levels increase in men as they age, they also act on the prostate gland. Estrogen can be converted from testosterone by enzyme activity. With respect to women (specifically info. about menopausal women that I have read), I have seen it being described that it acts like a progesterone. It is referred to as a phyto-progesterone. Which actually it would makes sense it has a progesterone-like activity in men as well - specifically that it balances estrogen. I have seen progesterone therapy recommended for men with prostate enlargement.
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This is a Medline indexed study that could be the basis of the comment that you read, but as you can see, it's receptor activity that is measured.
Evidence that Serenoa repens extract displays an antiestrogenic activity in prostatic tissue of benign prostatic hypertrophy patients.
Di Silverio F; D'Eramo G; Lubrano C; Flammia GP; Sciarra A; Palma E; Caponera M; Sciarra F, Department of Urology U. Bracci, University of Rome La Sapienza, Italy.
A double-blind placebo-controlled study was performed in 35 benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH) patients never treated before. The patients were randomized into two groups, the 1st (18 cases) receiving Serenoa repens extract (160 mg t.d.) for 3 months up to the day before the operation of transvesical adenomectomy and the 2nd (17 cases) receiving placebo. Steroid receptors were evaluated in the nuclear (n) and cytosolic (c) fraction using the saturation analysis technique (Scatchard analysis or single saturating-dose assay) for androgen (AR) and estrogen (ER) receptors and the enzyme immunoassay (EIA) for ER and progesterone receptors (PgR). Scatchard analysis of ERc and ERn revealed the presence of two classes of binding sites, one with high-affinity low-capacity binding and the other with low-affinity high-capacity binding. In the untreated BPH group, ER were higher in the n than in the c fraction: ERn were positive in 14 cases and ERc in 12 of 17 cases. In the BPH group treated with S. repens extract on the contrary, ERn were negative for both binding classes in 17 cases and ERc in 6 of 18 cases. Using EIA, ERn and ERc were detected in all 15 samples examined, but in the treated group, ERn were significantly (p less than 0.01) lower than in the untreated group, whilst ERc remained almost unchanged. Similar results were obtained measuring PgR: the n fraction of the treated group prostatic samples was significantly (p less than 0.01) lower than that of the untreated group.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
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I would suggest checking the well known herbalist Michael T. Murray's booklet, "The Saw Palmetto Story" or online Medline search to see if you can find the mechinism of action. Also health food stores often have Michael Murray's Encyclopedia or herbal textbook available to consult:
Ah ha! I looked up Bill Phillips, he is the Body for Life guy. I'm guessing that these are probably the studies he was reading about androgen supplements for body builders.
Or maybe he didn't read them, since they clearly state that aromatase enzyme activity (conversion of the androgen androstenediol to estradiol, the most potent form of estrogen) is NOT inhibited by saw palmetto. Both of these studies would refute his claim that it "blocks" estrogen.
I wonder if they were using standarized saw palmetto - maybe not! LOL!
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Sep;10(3):340-59
Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011, USA.
The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.
Endocrine and lipid responses to chronic androstenediol-herbal supplementation in 30 to 58 year old men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
Department of Health and Hunan Performance, Iowa State University, Ames 50011, USA.
OBJECTIVE: The effectiveness of an androgenic nutritional supplement designed to enhance serum testosterone concentrations and prevent the formation of dihydrotestosterone and estrogen was investigated in healthy 3 to 58 year old men. DESIGN: Subjects were randomly assigned to consume a nutritional supplement (AND-HB) containing 300-mg androstenediol, 480-mg saw palmetto, 450-mg indole-3-carbinol, 300-mg chrysin, 1,500 mg gamma-linolenic acid and 1.350-mg Tribulus terrestris per day (n = 28), or placebo (n = 27) for 28 days. Subjects were stratified into age groups to represent the fourth (30 year olds, n = 20), fifth (40 year olds, n = 20) and sixth (50 year olds, n = 16) decades of life. MEASUREMENTS: Serum free testosterone, total testosterone, androstenedione, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, prostate specific antigen and lipid concentrations were measured before supplementation and weekly for four weeks. RESULTS: Basal serum total testosterone, estradiol, and prostate specific antigen (PSA) concentrations were not different between age groups. Basal serum free testosterone concentrations were higher (p < 0.05) in the 30- (70.5 +/- 3.6 pmol/L) than in the 50 year olds (50.8 +/- 4.5 pmol/L). Basal serum androstenedione and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentrations were significantly higher in the 30- (for androstenedione and DHT, respectively, 10.4 +/- 0.6 nmol/L and 2198.2 +/- 166.5 pmol/L) than in the 40- (6.8 +/- 0.5 nmol/L and 1736.8 +/- 152.0 pmol/L) or 50 year olds (6.0 +/- 0.7 nmol/L and 1983.7 +/- 147.8 pmol/L). Basal serum hormone concentrations did not differ between the treatment groups. Serum concentrations of total testosterone and PSA were unchanged by supplementation. Ingestion of AND-HB resulted in increased (p < 0.05) serum androstenedione (174%), free testosterone (37%), DHT (57%) and estradiol (86%) throughout the four weeks. There was no relationship between the increases in serum free testosterone, androstenedione, DHT, or estradiol and age (r2 = 0.08, 0.03, 0.05 and 0.02, respectively). Serum HDL-C concentrations were reduced (p < 0.05) by 0.14 mmol/L in AND-HB.
CONCLUSIONS: These data indicate that ingestion of androstenediol combined with herbal products does not prevent the formation of estradiol and dihydrotestosterone.
Check out this Saudi Arabian study from 1988! It just breaks my heart that 14 years later we cannot find adequate studies on saw palmetto for women.
(Permixon is a European brand of saw palmetto extract)
Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand 1988;67(5):397-9
The effect of Permixon on androgen receptors.
el-Sheikh MM, Dakkak MR, Saddique A.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, King Khalid University Hospital, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
Permixon, the liposterolic extract of the plant Serenoa Repens is a recently introduced drug for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. The effect of Permixon on dihydrotestosterone and testosterone binding by eleven different tissue specimens was tested. The drug reduced the mean uptake of both hormones by 40.9% and 41.9% respectively in all tissue specimens. Since hirsutism and virilism are among other gynecological problems caused either by excessive androgen stimulation or excess endorgan response, we suggest that Permixon could be a useful treatment in such conditions and recommend further investigations of the possible therapeutic values of the drug in gynecological practice.
Lollipop,
I'm so sorry to hear you couldn't tolerate it, at least the spiro is ok for you.
Can I ask you about Udo's Oil? How's the taste? Do you just gulp it down or mix it with food or beverage?
I usually take Flax/Borage oil but have heard that a Flax/Evening Primrose is better since Eve Prim doesn't need an enzyme to convert to GLA that Borage does.
Wow!Thanks for all the info.I'm impressed.Right now im gonna give tagamet a try because it is a mild anti-androgen and i have heartburn problems so im killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak!But if the tagamet doesn't do much i'll be willing to try the saw palmetto.Right now i'll try anything! I've been on this darn flutamide for a couple of weeks and the side effects are unbearable for me,i have a hyper sensitive body.That makes sense about the Bill phillips thing and the info benefiting bodybuilding.Years ago i looked into saw palmetto before i went on spiro but i read that article and it freaked me out about the saw palmetto.Last thing i need is lower estrogen(im already low).But the studies you pulled up sound good.I get nervous about herbal stuff because im so allergic to stuff and years ago i tried taking evening prim rose because i heard it was good for acne and that was the worst mistake i made!My skin went from being mild acne to severe acne.I stopped taking it and my skin got better within 2 weeks.The samething happend with wild yam.Somebody told me that it would make my skin better and it was just terrible after the wild yam.So herbs have scared me ever since.But the info you found and your experience sound pretty promising!
__________________ 5'5 weight 155-goal 135.Meds-Aldactone 150mgs.Yasmin,xanax,claritin-d.Currently getting back into weight lifting and attempting to low carb!
Try Saw Palmetto instead of Spiro/Aldactone 
Just my 2 cents! 
