vitex very dissapointed :(

Shelly30 · 10-21-2002, 08:15 PM

My temps have been up for awhile since starting vitex a couple of months ago but no af in sight. I went to my gynecologist and she did an ultrasound and it showed no lining whatsoever! I knew I have low estrogen but I guess I didnt think about it causing my body not to be able to make a lining! I knew it had a progesterone rising effect.

Oh well, at least its only a few months out of my life. I happen to be a rare cyster with the low estrogen.

nicola · 10-23-2002, 04:27 AM

im a cyster with low estrogon as well ive been on virtex for 8 weeks my temps are higher than normal on it but no af. don't know what im gonna try next.did clomid work for u?i never actually O'ed while i was on it but got pg with the after effects i now have an 8 year old daughter .dont give hope.

nikki

sweetlainie · 10-23-2002, 10:55 AM

I'm a cyster with literally NO estrogen. I am on cd 350+...I stopped counting. Provera doesn't work, Clomid doesn't work...NOTHING does. We've even tried 7 days of estradiol, with 10 days of Provera following- nothing.
I was considering Vitex but I have heard it really doesn't work that well for us that are extremely hormonally challenged.
What other options are there??? I was thinking about trying accupuncture...or even getting on bcps for a while.

paigettie · 10-23-2002, 12:54 PM

it could be that you have to levels of both, so fixing one by itself won't work. I had to have both clomid and estrogen when I finally got pregnant six years ago. My last go aroung we didn't use the estrogen because I was on the low side of normal and we were unsuccessful. Keep searching. Have you considered adding dong qui or black cohosh with it?

Sheri · 10-23-2002, 01:15 PM

I'm with JP about adding some other herbs in. One of my herbal books suggest using vitex on its own only for menopause. (I realize you may already be taking something else)
One book I have suggests using dong quai, raspberry leaf and false unicorn root to treat PCOS.
Personally I take...Siberian ginseng, dong quai, vitex, vit E, Kelp, Hawthorn, EPO, Milk Thistle, Multi vitamin and Wild Yam

I would like to say that this latest go around with herbs for me (I have a 7 year old due to vitex et al) this is what happened...
I took the herbs for 70 days and then had one day of heavy flow, then I went 35 days and started spotting which continued for 2 weeks. I then raised my dose from 400mg per day to 800mg per day and 70 days later I started spotting again which lasted 3 weeks and then my period finally started (a REAL one) and lasted 16 days. It is sometimes hard for me to persevere with this but I have seen the benefits of it in the past. It can take a long time. Most of my books say you need to give it 6-12 months.
Vitex is an adaptogen and works to balance whatever hormone imbalance exists not only progesterone.
I know you are frustrated but you may also become frustrated with the medical system. It took me 1 1/2 years to conceive when seeing the drs and then I went on to m/c at 3 months along (I feel because the underlying imbalances were not corrected)
There are lots of great books out there with info on herbs for women and lots of great herbs. The key is to have patience and stick with a regimen.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide. I am not trying to talk anyone out of going to the dr but I just want you to know this CAN work for you. The ultimate goal for all of us is reproductive health.
Best to you,

Sheri

Shelly30 · 10-23-2002, 04:04 PM

Nikki and sweetlainie - I am starting clomid next month, my insulin is still high 32, but much better than before. My dosage is 1500mgs of gluc xr right now and she is boosting me to 2000mgs. My doctor feels part of my problem is high insulin making my estrogen low. I havent had my estrogen levels checked but due to how provera works for me it makes it apparent to my doctor. Before I started gluc provera never brought on af for me at all due to me having no lining at all. After being on gluc for a couple of months, I know shed a lining however it takes about 16 to 18 days after my last provera pill to get af, which my doctor says that it is attributed to low estrogen.
So hopefully, with my ir dieting and my gluc getting raised my estrogen may come up to normal to allow me to shed it either after 2 to 4 days from my last provera pill or get af on my own hopefully. I'm currently seeing my gyno for this however, if clomid is a no go after three months then it is off to the re, for some tweaking with it i.e-estrogen with clomid or femara. I am too nervous to go back on the pill due to my high insulin I am afraid it will aggravate it. I might consider acupuncture if these other things dont work. Sweetlainie, I hope you are able to have a child considering all that you have tried and gone through.Unfortunaely the only other alternative I know of is injectibles and the medical route, Good Luck

Paigette and Sherry- If the clomid with gluc is a no go then I am going to see an re to add estrogen in the mix or try femara with estrogen. Actually, I am on quite a bit more than vitex but didnt list it. Here's my others- dong quai, milk thistle, black cohosh, motherwort, raw astragalus powder, and raw korean ginseng powder and EPO. Plus my b complex vitamins, selenium, and my multiple vitamin. Thanks for the advice though, and maybe later on if other treatments dont work I may try again.

My frustrating part is I am on cd173 with no lining so no af in sight, She is giving me estrogen right now to boost up a lining then provera to knock it down so I can start clomid. I am usually a very patient person and was so willing to wait it out but with no lining at all it just shot it down for me.

paigettie · 10-23-2002, 05:13 PM

man, i know how frustrating those long cycles are, I just finished one myself, but if you are on rx meds and herbs you may be doing more damage. Never mix herbs and prescriptions....You should decide which side to cut. It's not just a dangerous combination, but that may be why you are on day 173. For me, the rx meds were not effective anymore so I stopped and switched to herbs. (keep up the vits regardless though) THe herbs have been much more effective for me when I take them.

for those on glucophage or metphormin (sp?) you may want to check out something called vanadyl sulphate. My dad did some research on it and talked to my grandmas doc about it. (check out www.drwhitaker.com : last time I checked it there was a thourough article about how using vanadyl sulfate (50 mg/day) helped lower blood sugar levels and how and why...it was really informative. Hope it's still there. If not I'll see if I have a copy of it. )
Apparently my grandma's doctor couldn't raise her insulin levels any more, but her sugar was still way to high. Her doc said he was willing to try anything at this point, so they did. They had to reduce her insulin several times because it was working so well. Not to mention that her doc started recommending it to his other patients with insulin problems. Not just that either. My other grandma just started it too and now is having the same effect. Her glucophage has been reduced twice now and she's almost off of it altogether. Check it out. It couldn't hurt, and I'm off to get some. (they were out when I tried to get some before) Especially if the glucophage helps raise estrogen levels.....This could be something.

kimi1964 · 10-23-2002, 07:52 PM

i thought one the main things about PCOS was that we HAD low estrogen and too much testosterone???? do i have it backward?

paigettie · 10-23-2002, 08:17 PM

It depends on who you are and how your blood tests come back. Mostly you have to go by symptoms though. Go to http://www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html
and take the test and it will help you to know what direction to look. The majority, from what I understand, is that the excess androgens and male horomones in the body
act like estrogen and need balanced by the progesterone, you still may lack the actual estrogen itself....(see, the fun thing about this pcos is how confusing it can be.)

You know, Kat posted an article in the natural remedies called sourced for natural progesterone (i think) scroll down to the bottom and it has a research article from dr. lee about how it is. Hopefully it will un-confuse what I have confused

Take me and my sister, we both have pcos, but hers is more a "testosterone" thing with all of her other horomones being normal, where mine also has other horomone deficiencies. I guess I'm a bigger mess 'cause I'm older

kimi1964 · 10-23-2002, 08:56 PM

great info! thanks!

yep - this whole PCOS is confusing!!!!