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Old 09-23-2004, 01:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default When does life begin?? Warning this may offend!

Before I go into detail , I want to clarify...I am asking for opinions to try to see if anyone has a good handle on this, if you are offended please accept my apologies in advance... this issue is so close to my heart and I am confused...
Background....
I have graduated from 2 different bibles schools( well known) ,was a missionary for 2 years, and come from a long line of Baptist and non Denominational Pastors...( a minisiter every generation since the Civil War and before and the last 2 generations they have been 4 ministers)

But no one including my current Pastor can answer this question?
when does life begin??
the reason I am asking is because of IVF is being considered by my husband and I...The DR says Conception is not until the egg has implanted that is why if you only transfer 3 eggs and only 2 implant it is not considered a miscarriage.

The bible says God knows us from conception.. My question I guess is when is conception?? when sperm meets egg or when the egg inplants??

Again my DR who is a Christian also, sd that every month thousands of women have eggs fertilized by the sperm, but never implant, they never even know there was a fertilized egg because no HCG is ever produced because unless the embryo implants and continues to development. SO in her opinion life does not begin until implantation because that is what must take place for the baby to develop also in the Christian Faith Life is in the Blood, so until the Blood flow is established there is not life.

My confusion comes in at this level... if life begins at feritilization then I cannot as a Christian and Pro Life Advocate , fertilize 15 eggs and only attempt to implant 3, so the challenge becomes to find a DR who will fertilize only 3 eggs and transfer 3 eggs. If it is not considered life until the egg implants then there is no moral reason not to attempt IVF,
Here is the kicker... The Bloodline of the Father is in the seed....so some believe once the egg is fertilized it is life... I don't know???

It may just be semantics, but until this is clear to me, I cannot go any further, I cannot justify letting 14 other babies ( or potential babies) to die just so I can fulfill my desire to have a baby....


Does any of this make any sense???? I am confused on what to do... I am afraid my own desire to have a child can blind me to what the truth is.....

Thanks for any help you can give
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Old 09-23-2004, 01:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To be honest I dont think you will get a straight answer because so many people feel different about this subject. I would have to say when the egg implants. IVF or not there are times that a egg will be fertilized but not implant.

IVF is the reason for some many babies to IF couples. Its the only way for them. Look how many couple do IVF and still don't get PG. I think the implant phase is where god come in..thats just me
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bellabear..Thank you for responding...I too am leaning towards implantion... just don't want to make a mistake in all this..
my Pastor says don't over think it..if you are doing someting wrong God will let you know...

I really appreciate you responding....
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Oh and Congratulations on being so close to your second Trimester!!!!!

God Bless !!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I also agree with your Pastor. You know when you are doing something against God. Do you know what I mean?? Its a feeling I will get when I know I'm doing bad. I hope you find an answer soon. Hopefully, it will happen all by itself
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I totally understand... to me it feels like trying to wash your feet w socks on !! ..Just feels wrong!!
Thank you so much...

God Bless you!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My personal opinion is life begins at conception. If an egg is fertilized and does not implant then in a way it is a miscarriage that you just didn't know about. If my dh and I ever do IVF, we will freeze the embryos that aren't implanted right away and do FET until all those embryos are gone. Even with IVF, God IS involved in which ones fertilize and which ones do not as fertilization doesn't always happen. This is a really hard question and I’ve prayed about it often. This is what God has told me is right for me. He may tell you something different. God Bless!
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thank You for responding!!

We are so unsure of it all, my dh & I discussed the same thing, the only problem is the cost of keeping fertilized eggs for transfer is expensive. If you had 15 fertilized eggs, how many would you attempt to carry yourself and would you ever consider putting the rest up for adoption via FET ?????
The cost of Cryogenically Freezing the embryos is approx $600 for three months at the clinic I have checked at what is the cost in your area??

Thank You again... I know God does not always take everyone down the same path, that is why I want to hear all opinions, you know what they say "Iron Sharpens iron"... sometimes reading something just "clicks" with your Spirit...

Thank You again!!!!
Kay
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I probably wouldn't let them fertilize all 15 eggs if I produced that many. I would keep it to a reasonable number (probably 10 or less but that's a bridge I would have to cross when I got there KWIM). I'm not sure of what the storage costs would be but I would pay whatever it regardless. No, I would not adopt out any of my embryos. I couldn't. They are part of me and my dh and I've always wanted a large family so however many God gave me is how many I would try to have. Plus, I've had a family member offer to carry them for me if I couldn't carry them myself. Again, this is just what I feel is right for me. God Bless!
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm responding to you without reading other posts and after having prayed about it.

Here is what came into my heart:

Life begins when embryo is firmly planted in the heart of the mothers womb.

It is for you to decide.

best wishes to you on your quest to become a mother. I am of the belief that certain spirits are meant to come into your family, so where there is a will for that child (or children), there is a way!!
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Lots of dots... My dh & I also couldn't give embryos away... I think FET adoption is wonderful and my SIL may be trying... but I would want to know how that child was going to be raised and be taken care of....I was abused by a relative from age 3 to 11...there is more to a family than just the adoptive parents!!!


Razz..Thank you for responding too!!! I love that ...."Life begins when embryo is firmly planted in the heart of the mothers womb."...I keep quotes and sayings and with your permission would like to add that as well... if OK will forward to my SIL who is considering FET adoption.......ALso thank you for prayerfully answering my post !!!!!!!!

Kay
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Old 09-23-2004, 04:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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No problem Kay. some will agree with me and some won't, but I don't argue about matters of the heart and soul. You asked for opinions and I prayerfully gave you mine. Use it as you will!
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Old 10-04-2004, 04:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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imo life never ends, therefore it does not begin
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Old 10-04-2004, 01:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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He knew us in the womb! So conception and I believe conception is when the sperm meets the egg
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Old 10-04-2004, 02:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think your pastor is correct in saying that GOD will let you know if you are doing something wrong. I got a CLEAR word from GOD when I was doing injectables. (that didn't work BTW). He said 'NO MORE" Of course my flesh continiued, not with injectables but I did try clomid (that didn't work either).
After saying all that, I believe life begins at conception, when sperm meets egg!!
Pray about your situation ( as I am sure you are doing!!)
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