Sarrah

ITS NOT SO MUCH HORMONES BUT HOW SENSITIVE OUR HAIR FOLLICLES ARE TO CERTAIN HORMONES - MAINLY FREE TESTOSTERONE. This is inherited from your mother and your father. You can be lucky or not.
Some men (men have high testosterone) keep full heads of thick hair till they are old, some start to thin in early 20's and 30s and end up bald or nearly bald.

Alot of people don't realise that womens hairloss works the same way - ie our sensitivity to testosterone.

Hormones or "sensitivity to hormones, mainly testosterone" are the MAIN reason why both MEN and WOMEN lose hair and permanently. (there are some other reasons such as malnutrition and autoimmune diseases but we are not talking about them as they are different issues).

Both men and women have hair follicles which are either "sensitive" to testosterone/DHT, or not really so sensitive to it.
You genetically inherit this trait. Even brothers and sisters can be different. Its the luck of the draw. GEnetics is complex.

That is why some men go bald or have thinning hair and others don't. It's not that the bald ones have any more testosterone than the thick haired ones (some people still think that, that bald or men with thin hair are more virile - not true).

It is the same with women = however in women for most of their lives we have the female hormones (estrogen and progesterone) which balance out the affect of testosterone, plus the fact that "normal" women have ALOT LESS TESTOSTERONE than men.

So what happpens is - women with PCOS have higher levels of free testosterone - we are mainly looking at Free Testostereon as this is the one which affects skin and hair follicles.

Alot of people including myself have NORMAL testosterone in general but the free testosterone is raised.
For example: Mine is 14 but normal is between 1 and 8.

So therefore PCOS women who have "sensitive hair follilcles" to testosterone... once the PCOS kicks in and their FREE TESTOSTERONE starts to rise.. they lose scalp hair.. similar and if not for the same reason as a man = TESTOSTERONE SENSITIVITY. Unfortunately this is normally permanent so its important to catch PCOS early. Its not like we say to men in their 20's and 30s who are thinning... oh it wont' be permanent, it will grow back don't worry. Its the same with women. I wish it wasn't as I am in this situation now. I have tried for close to 4 years to be diaganosed and have only just been successful. Have just started metformin today which I am hoping will reduce my free testosterone ie Androgens.

These same women and girls (PCOS women) are likely to have brothers, fathers, uncles... male grandparents, with "Thinning hair"... its in their genes. For both men and women its called 'ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA OR AGA.

However if a PCOS girl is "not sensitive to Testosterone" and for example her father and brother and grandfather on each side have full heads of hair at 40 50 60 (its natural to have a bit of age related thinning and for women after menopause) - she is not likely to have scalp hair loss as even though her free testosterone has risen more than is normal for a women, its not even as high as a man still and the males in her family still havent' lost their hair due their testosterone. So genetically their hair follicles are not sensitive to Testosterone. Male or Female.

I hope you understand what I have tried to explain in a really simple way. Hormones are very complex and some people who know a lot about it will find my explanantion very simple but I'm not an endocrinologist but trying to explain so people understand.

My twin brother has had thinningh hair since mid 20s, so has my uncle on mothers side and his father (my grandfather).
My dad is 66 with a full head of hair. My mother missed the genes and is in her early 60's with a full head of hair. I am jealous.


As I said the "genes" we inherit are the luck of the draw. Its like lotterry.

I hope somebody finds this interesting. I do as my have lost over 50% of my hair due to high free testosterone levels probably starting in mid 20's.
I think people not affected by hairloss with thick heads of hair would probably find my post very boring..

When I had thick hair - I took it for granted and would never have fully understood how devasting hair loss is for a women and to men as well. But its worse for Women as men's hair loss is considered normal and hair is considered a main feature for a woman - like it or not. That is our society.

Heralopecia is a great website for women who have thinning hair.
It's similar to this board with lost of supportive women going through the same problem. (For different reasons but most from Androgenetic Alopecia) which is what I just described above. Also a lot have PCOS.

Sarrah.

Carinachichi

I'm suffering from PCOS for many many years now. However, since I've started with Metformin and lost more than 40 kgs, I suffer from hair loss.

Why didn't I lose hair before??? Could it be a result of the weight loss instead of a hormone-related thing? Could that mean that my hair might regrow?

The idea that my hair will never be as thick as it used to be is very frightening...

Sarrah

B vitamins are very important for hair.

Metformin leeches out a certain B vitamin, I think its B12.... so make sure you have lots of a B complex tablet. - they absorb better if you take B complex.

This may be the reason. The drug itself may cause hairloss as some people think Zoloft does....

The main reason why people in general lose hair is from Testosterone sensitivity.

If you go off met or start to take B vitamins - this may change reduce the hair shedding for you. Let me know and good luck.

LizaA

Cari, I had the same experience as you. I hadn't had hair loss until I went from 72kg to 59/58kg which is when I started noticing clumps of hair in the shower, all over my pillow, carpet and etc.

My dad has head full of hair and he's in his late 60s as does my mom. So I'm not altogether sure if it's genetics for me.

I have noticed that my acne reoccured when I started putting carbs back in my diet so I'm cutting that out and hoping that hair loss would also be alleviated by that. But I doubt it as the hair loss happened long before I started eating carbs again.

Allison.

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Allison
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Traditional PCOS - Anovulatory, increased androgens, no insulin resistance
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Annas

Allison, that is GREAT for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This gives me hope that *maybe* I won't lose all my hair, maybe somthing can still be done.

How did you approach your endo with this? I'm kinda scared to do so. I just started seeing him so he is new to my case. I'm scared he'll think I'm jumping the gun if I bring Flutamide up at our next appt. (it'll only be our 2nd)in November. He's continuing me on Spiro, and is also putting me on Yaz.

He is a military doctor, BUT he seemed genuinely concerned and determined to help.

I guess my ? is.......How do we PCOS gals bring up the things we learn about *without* coming across as depressed crazy women who spend all our time reading bogus stuff on the net? MANY doctors think this, I've heard 2 say as much. Of course this is offending, because ***I*** was the one who diagnosed myself with Hashimotos and PCOS....I'm NOT kidding!!!

Anyway, I'd love to hear from you and others with some real "tips"!

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Navi

I think it just depends on whether you have a forward thinking doctor or not. During my first appointment with my current doctor, he was the one who mentioned that there are a lot of great websites with information about PCOS (but he didn't just send me off on my own either).

You don't necessarily have to say you found it on the internet, just that you came across some information about it and were curious. Seems like a genuine enough concern and any good doctor would listen to you!

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Sarrah

LizaA - Both my parents have thick hair (if I didn't have a twin brother with thinning hair or if I had never known my maternal grandfather or my mum didn't have a brother. I would be in your position - thinking well its not in my genes. Genetics are very complicated. You could have inherited things that perhaps your parents have not ie A women needs both dominant genes of "hair thinning" BB to get it but aparently a man only needs one gene ie Bb, meaning as we see in the population, we see lots of balding men but not as many women - also women don't really get it as bad as most of them ie the ones with out PCOS don't have the Free Testosterone levels to really affect their "sensitive follicles" anyway. we only see it in people with PCOS who have the higher levels of T.
You see !! The more you get into it the more complicated genetics gets!!!

Sarrah

Allison,

That is GREAT news regarding your successful results.

This is something I will think about doing after I have had a baby or babies.

That gives us all some hope! Good on you and thank you for sharing it.

Sarrah

Annas,
I am sorry that I couldnt' give you an "Real Tips' For combatting hairloss but I guess I just wanted to explain or try to , the science behind losing hair.

My doctor, fiance, parents, friends, all thought for a while or stil do that I am reading too much about hairloss and talking about my hair or obsessed if you like.
I am sure that would soon change if they were experiencng the same thing but they are not. I have some very "vain" friends who if they started losing hair would be devastated but becuase its not happening to them they don't seemto care and think I'm over reactioning.
I don't care. I don't think I am.

Allison.

I asked my last Endocrinologist for a referral for a second opinion.
(she wouldn't even discuss Flutamide with me).
When I first met with my current Endocrinologist I brought in copies of current Flutamide studies and let him know that I was truly concerned about my long term health.
He prescribed it after some initial l lab work. You can do a search on this site for "Flutamide" and see studies that Kat has posted and others that I have posted.
Good luck

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Allison
I have to exercise in the morning, before my brain figures out what the hell I am actually doing
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Traditional PCOS - Anovulatory, increased androgens, no insulin resistance
Medications and Supps listed on my profile.

joyblack

An excellent post with a great deal of clear explanation. Just one vital factor which needs to be added into this complex business, though. The sensitization of the follicles to testosterone takes place during the first three months of fetal life and in the present state of knowledge, no-one is quite certain as to the source of the initial "kick" of testosterone which starts the process -- whether it comes from the fetus (iin which case the father's and mother's genes are both involved) or whether it comes from the mother. An obvious indicator of individuals who have been highly sensitized to testosterone during that critical period and are thus able to respond to potential later exposure to testosterone is the relative length of ring fingers to index fingers. If your ring fingers are longer than your index fingers, you have been exposed to high levels of testosterone during the first three months of fetal life and if exposed in later life to high levels of free testosterone your hair follicles will be capable of responding in the so called "male" pattern.
Thanks for a good post.

Annas

ACK! My ring finder is a good bit longer than my index finger!

Sometimes I just get this hopeless, Scr*w me!!!! type of attitude. I have it today. Of all the symptoms to have, why is mine hair loss? WHY????!!!!

As usual, I clogged my drain this morning with my hair. And people have told me not to "dwell" on my hair loss! If this were happening to them, they'd wouldn't be saying this!

__________________
Ah! sunflower, weary of time,
Who countest the steps of the sun,
Seeking after that sweet golden clime
Where the traveller’s journey is done;
Where the youth pined away with desire,
And the pale virgin shrouded in snow,
Arise from their graves and aspire;
Where my sunflower wishes to go.
Sir William Blake

oneplustwins

I just wanted to post my 2 cents. Many people attribute metformin and or losing a great deal of weight as the cause of losing hair. Both of these things will change your hormones. They both lower testosterone levels in round about ways. Losing weight increases your SHBG leaving less free testosterone in the blood stream. Metformin decreases insulin which inturn decreases production of testosterone by the ovaries. So one could say that any hair loss that starts after these two things could possibly be due to changes in hormone levels for the good.

After reading many post of people starting hair loss treatments (Rogaine, spiro etc.) most have an increase in shed before they see improvements.

I have been on metformin 2000mg for a year. I was already losing hair when I started it. After several months I did notice that my shedding had decreased greatly and I do see regrowth that looks healthy. In my case while metformin decreased shedding I dont think it will be enough to stop this process so I just started flutimide.

Just my 2 cents.

joyblack

Of course they wouldn't! But actually, when I discovered about this business of fetal sensitization to testosterone and realized that my ring fingers were longer than my index fingers, I found it something of a relief. This is basically how my body is. It was programmed from the beginning to respond to testosterone in the same sort of way as males typically do. Of course, a great many females are programmed the same way and don't have "male"-pattern hair growth and hair loss, because they don't have high levels of free testosterone in adult life, but for me it was important to know something of the reason of why I had "male"-type moustache and beard growth and the beginnings of "male"-pattern hair loss at the temples. Just knowing helped me a lot in terms of accepting the situation.